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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4950 Posts

Posted - March 03 2018 :  08:09:31 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
However this all plays out, there’s one thing it shows for sure: it’s not enough to have a SRO ‘on scene’. What makes all the difference, is what type of man (or woman) the SRO is....


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish, that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on March 03 2018 08:09:50 AM
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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
5202 Posts

Posted - March 03 2018 :  09:12:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LittleBill

However this all plays out, there’s one thing it shows for sure: it’s not enough to have a SRO ‘on scene’. What makes all the difference, is what type of man (or woman) the SRO is....

And if you do have the sort of person who could stand up and kill an active shooter, is that person going to be a good fit for the day to day tedium of being an SRO? Or are you just taking one of your best people and stashing him/her away to guard against a statistically highly improbable situation?

Better, I think to arm and train multiple qualified, motivated school staff, rather than putting all your eggs in one basket with an armed SRO who could arguably serve the community better out on the street.

Jeff

jle3030

Edited by - jle3030 on March 03 2018 09:13:38 AM
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4950 Posts

Posted - March 03 2018 :  10:34:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jle3030

quote:
Originally posted by gw

well, if you listen to the Broward County Sherrifs Union representative

the Sheriff's office and the school board had an agreement to conduct a hands off, lip service security program at the high school

the school board did not want a strong hands on direct police presence at the school, it might negatively impact their safety "stats"


the mayor and school administrators are the first to mention they are one of the safest schools in Florida....

my guess is the 4 deputies will say they were following Sherriff Office policy

I don't believe in lawsuits, but if it was my kid, my lawyer would be after the school board and the SO

I wouldn't let up on Sheriff Israel

and the next time the President asked me for ideas, I'd recommend he fire some people at the FBI....


To expand on the rep's interview: As GW notes, the Broward County Board of Education is the as yet unmentioned elephant in the room. On Laura Ingraham's show last night the Broward Deputy Association's representative Jeff Bell stated that the Board did NOT want arrests made, drugs found, or warrants served on school property. Offending students were to be dealt with in the "Promise Program" - intervention and diversion, as opposed to arrest and incarceration. This policy, agreed upon and touted by the School Board and the Sheriff's office quote: "Took all discretion from the officers to affect an arrest" on school property.

Is this "hands off the schools" policy what froze four deputies in place outside the building? We'll see as the stinky stuff bubbles to the surface.

Reports are surfacing that at the memorial service held the next day there were recriminations passed between the Coral Springs PD and Broward Sheriff's deputies. Also the Coral Springs City Manager and Sheriff Israel had a "heated discussion" in front of about a dozen witnesses.

Eventually the smoke will clear and we'll see once again what happens when we rely on government to protect us and our children.

Jeff


quote:
Originally posted by gw

seems that the Sheriffs Office and school participate in the Obama era PROMISE program

minority kids are protected from law enforcement in an effort to keep them out of the system (stats would show Obama was keeping the schools safer)

apparently when Nicholas de Jesus Cruz was brought to the attention of the Sheriffs office, he was a troubled Hispanic kid so hands off


after he committed mass murder Nick Cruz became a white male, not a student....

Deputy's were conditioned to steer clear of problems at the school




The more you learn about this, the more outrageous it gets! This on the “PROMISE” program from Freedom Outpost:

“The story all began about 6 years ago in Miami-Dade County (the county just South of Broward), where the school district was struggling to succeed. All of the data painted a picture of a failing school district. The district noticed that large portions of their school populations were being arrested at a higher proportion than the rest of their community, and they realized that if they could cut down on the criminality of their students, they could quickly improve the data coming out of their schools. With this in mind, the district entered into a relationship with their local police force and concluded a deal that would ensure the police would stop arresting so many of their students.

Within a year or two, surrounding communities began to notice the change in Miami-Dade’s fortunes (which included a new influx of [federal and state] money), and Broward County decided that it was time they entered into a similar deal with their local police force.
 
The Broward County School Board and District Superintendent entered into a political agreement with Broward County Law enforcement officials to stop arresting students for crimes. The motive was simple. The school system administrators wanted to “improve their statistics” and gain state and federal grant money for improvements therein.
 
It’s important to remember that this was not an arbitrary change; this was a well-planned fundamental shift in the entire dynamic of how teenagers would be treated when they engaged in criminal conduct.

In a very real way, the new policies made public school students above the law. These policies conflicted with laws that police officers had been long-trained to follow, but now it allowed students to act as they wished, without fear of the consequences. At first, the police were only “excusing” misdemeanors, but soon they were also “excusing” felonies, including violent crimes like assault, armed robberies, and worse.
 
From the TheLastRefuge: “Over time, even the most severe of unlawful conduct was being filtered by responding police. We found out about it when six cops blew the whistle on severe criminal conduct they were being instructed to hide. The sheriff and police Chiefs were telling street cops and school cops to ignore ever-worsening criminal conduct.
 
The police would take the stolen merchandise and intentionally falsify police records to record stolen merchandise “as if” they just found it on the side of the road. They put drugs and stolen merchandise in bags, and sent it to storage rooms in the police department. Never assigning the recovery to criminal conduct. Stolen merchandise was just sitting in storage rooms gathering dust.

They couldn’t get the stuff back to the victim because that would mean the police would have to explain how they took custody of it. So they just hid it. To prove this was happening one of the officers told me where to look, and who the victim was…” According to TheLastRefuge, an internal investigation was carried out, but the results were buried, because what it found was not politically or economically expedient for the county.
 
In the years following, youth crime in Miami-Dade and Broward steadily grew worse. An odd quota system developed, and once a certain number of High School students had been arrested in the county, leadership would make sure that other crimes committed would be excused.

To make matters worse (as if this wasn’t bad enough), South Florida’s gangs quickly caught on to the scheme and began using high school students to commit more of their crimes. They also began planning their biggest, most important activities later in the month, later in the quarter, and at times when schools were collecting their data for reporting. In this way, the gangs could take advantage of committing their crimes at the time when the police would be most likely to give their high school aged members a pass.
 
Now we’re getting closer to how all of this led to the Douglas High School shooting.
 
With the intricate nature of the relationship between the police and the schools, it became vital that the School Resource Officers (SROs) placed at the schools understood how the symbiotic relationship between the district and the police was supposed to work. They needed SROs who were adept at ensuring the criminal activities of their students would not be reported as crimes and endanger the district’s political and financial fortunes.

The sheriff’s deputy who did “nothing” while Nikolas Cruz killed seventeen people also refused to share information on Cruz with state social services during a 2016 investigation into his home life.
 
These problems with the SROs in South Florida are not something new. There have been other investigations that uncovered their questionable behavior, but again it wasn’t convenient to end the practice. In the wake of the Douglas High School shooting, these problems should be too big to hide.
 
Sadly, instead of covering the ongoing corruption of the law that has been happening in Miami-Dade and Broward counties since 2012, the media has chosen to focus their fire on gun control.
 
Instead of worrying about guns, the media should be asking how could local police pay 39 different visits (Broward Police claim it was “only” 23 visits) to one student without that student ever spending significant time in prison or a psychiatric ward. They should be asking why the local police wouldn’t share information about this high school kid with social services or other law enforcement agencies.

The truth is that our laws and law enforcement procedures were enough to stop the Douglas High School shooting before it ever happened, but because of the corruption sowed by the Broward County School District and local police leaders, those laws and procedures were ignored.
 
If the procedures (and laws) had been followed, Cruz would have never been allowed to purchase a gun. He would have likely already been incarcerated, and he never would have had the opportunity to kill 17 people.
 
This case isn’t about guns. And the answer isn’t more gun control.
 
This case is about school districts lying to their families in an effort to get more money and more political influence. It’s about local police forces being willing to ignore crime and refusing to abide by the laws that they promised they would uphold. It’s about government failures at every level and how that corruption and failure led to the death of 17 innocent people.”



"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish, that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on March 03 2018 10:36:54 AM
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4950 Posts

Posted - March 03 2018 :  10:40:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jle3030

quote:
Originally posted by LittleBill

However this all plays out, there’s one thing it shows for sure: it’s not enough to have a SRO ‘on scene’. What makes all the difference, is what type of man (or woman) the SRO is....

And if you do have the sort of person who could stand up and kill an active shooter, is that person going to be a good fit for the day to day tedium of being an SRO? Or are you just taking one of your best people and stashing him/her away to guard against a statistically highly improbable situation?

Better, I think to arm and train multiple qualified, motivated school staff, rather than putting all your eggs in one basket with an armed SRO who could arguably serve the community better out on the street.

Jeff


True; but no reason you couldn’t have both. It would take a special kind of person who could both engage with the kids day by day, and also be ready to go into full warrior mode if the need arose. A rare type of person.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish, that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on March 03 2018 10:43:00 AM
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ajt
Average Member

USA
267 Posts

Posted - March 06 2018 :  5:45:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
LittleBill - I thought that your post of 03/03/2018 at 10:34 was excellent! Could you please tell me the source of the information on the "Promise" program and for any of the other info in that post. I sent part of it to a relative with whom I have an ongoing debate about gun rights, and other social programs and issues, and I would like to be able to add some support to the issue with more history and facts on the program. I thought that your post was an excellent summation/description of some of the background issues involved that led up to and contributed to the actual incident.
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4950 Posts

Posted - March 07 2018 :  08:12:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks! I took it from Joel Skousen’s weekly ‘World Affairs Brief’ (worldaffairsbrief dot com). Skousen attributes it to freedomoutpost dot com; which, depending on who you listen to, is either a reprehensible source of “extreme-right-wing fake news”, or a one of the few places that tells it like it is.

There’s a lot of info out there on the ‘Promise’ program; which is one of many Gov’t programs based on Obama AG Eric Holder’s concept of “disparate impact”: which says that wherever you find unequal performance by a ‘minority’ group— in this case, a larger percentage of Black and Hispanic kids getting arrested— that automatically means there’s discrimination happening against that group.

Skousen is definitely a diehard conspiracy theorist. I don’t know what to make of some of the stuff he writes. But I find him to be a great source of interesting and valid info as well; and I share his perspective on many, if not all, issues that he covers.

Another thing I like about him, he doesn’t hesitate to print a retraction if something he puts out there turns out to contain misinformation.

"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish, that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on March 07 2018 08:22:40 AM
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3223 Posts

Posted - March 07 2018 :  09:57:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The website, Conservative Tree House, has also been following the Broward County SO and schools... and for quite awhile. One of their lead writers lives in that area. The data they have accumulated correlates with what LB posted.

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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ajt
Average Member

USA
267 Posts

Posted - March 07 2018 :  11:12:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
LittleBill and Chris - Thank you both very much! I've bookmarked the sites to my daily reading favorites. I always look for your commentaries and information on topics. Bill, Do you still have that Glock revolver, the one issued by the three lettered clandestine agency (CAI?)?

In central Ohio we experienced something similar in our public schools a couple of years ago in which they were faking grades and attendance. If I recall correctly, and I don't always as I get older, a school resource officer was involved in some way. I don't remember the details other than the person apparently responsible had been frequently praised in the media - another story for another time. Similar but nothing to the extent of what was happening in the Florida school.
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3223 Posts

Posted - March 07 2018 :  3:01:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In the "cesspool of facts" some things will keep bubbling up to the surface.
I read today, what could be a credible report, that SRO Peterson was outside the building (as has been reported) and on the phone/radio (as has been reported) and transmitted that he thought the shooter was outside the building.
The Parkland District Scene Commander, Jan Jordan, is the one who issued the order to stage and form a perimiter... IF... and we do not know...that was the best information she was acting upon as Scene Commander, then the stage/perimiter (screw it.. I can't spell that word!) order made sense. One Coral Springs PD officer noted that. And, if Peterson stated that the shooter was outside and it was believed by the responders, the order did make sense.

So... we have the school policy... incompetent SRO... an abundance of other incompetence in Broward SO, and the fiasco.

Like I mentioned earlier, Broward County is one of those "S"-hole places President Trump mentioned. That's what happens when a bunch of liberals migrate from repressive, high-tax Northern states, to settle in Florida paradise... and then immediately do their best to turn it into the "S"-hole state they just left.

The Broward school superintendent .. Robert Runcie came there from... wait!... Chicago.... Sheriff Isreal came there from... wait! New Yawk.

None of us who live in Florida are surprised. We've seen it all before.

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.

Edited by - Chris Christian on March 07 2018 3:03:04 PM
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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1799 Posts

Posted - March 07 2018 :  3:40:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The public get the police they deserve.

Broward County residents need to look in the mirror, if they find their police are lacking. You can't do your best to eradicate professionalism and the warrior culture in police work, then be upset when you call 911 and a professional warrior fails to show up.

Mike
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Malcolm
Advanced Member

USA
4076 Posts

Posted - March 07 2018 :  9:16:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As I “understand this mess”, the shooter did his thing in Building 12 of the campus, a multi-story high rise, that only had one single SRO deputy for the entire campus. That’s at best, the “illusion of security”, and the onus will be on the School District to prove in upcoming security negligence litigation, (that WILL be being filed soon), that their Campus Security Plan, is defensible “after the fact”, especially with the known threat.
Broward County S.O and their moron of a Sheriff, all have “qualified immunity”, unless, the Plaintiffs Counsel can show, that the actions of Broward County SO’ on scene command staff, and their critical response plan, was so egregiously flawed, that the qualified immunity, could conceivably vanish into thin air.
I’ve noticed that the flatulating Sheriff seems to no longer be at the forefront of the County, so, I’m guessing outside defense counsel is sequestering him someplace, in order to mitigate the mounting liability losses, his leadership has already cost the taxpayers.
Time to get out the popcorn, sit down and watch 2018’s Blame Game, courtesy of Sheriff Israel, and his political gasbag hacks in the School District as well.
The memory of those lost in this rrpptragedy, as well as those forever scarred by their wounds, will be diminished by the !broward County political pimps devouring each other for political gain and future posturing. Nothing ever changes.

"The measure of a man's character, is how he treats someone who can do nothing for him." (unknown)
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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
5202 Posts

Posted - March 08 2018 :  10:46:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And the beat goes on...

Now two Miramar FL police detectives, members of the SWAT team, have been suspended by their department for responding without authorization to the Douglas High School shooting.
The police union is objecting. As they should, IMHO.

Doesn't anyone in authority in Broward County have any concept of the term "Optics"? We already know they have no clue about school safety and "Lives vs. Policy".

Jeff

jle3030

Edited by - jle3030 on March 08 2018 10:49:18 AM
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3223 Posts

Posted - March 08 2018 :  11:03:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jle3030

And the beat goes on...

Now two Miramar FL police detectives, members of the SWAT team, have been suspended by their department for responding without authorization to the Douglas High School shooting.
The police union is objecting. As they should, IMHO.

Doesn't anyone in authority in Broward County have any concept of the term "Optics"? We already know they have no clue about school safety and "Lives vs. Policy".

Jeff



Not when it comes to conflicting with their liberal agenda.
I don't know how many remember this... but the Great Hanging Chad debate after the Bush/Kerry election was in Broward County. I distinctly remember watching on live TV the County Election Commissioner.. female, last name Gunsbarger.. I think first name Susan...doing a manual inspection of ballots with hanging chads... she tossed one "Invalid", tossed another, then was about to toss one more but stopped.
She actually quipped on live TV "Oh, this is a Democrat vote, we'll keep this one"... laughing as she said it.

Nothing surprises me about that "S"-hole county.

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4950 Posts

Posted - March 09 2018 :  07:45:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ajt

LittleBill and Chris - Thank you both very much! I've bookmarked the sites to my daily reading favorites. I always look for your commentaries and information on topics. Bill, Do you still have that Glock revolver, the one issued by the three lettered clandestine agency (CAI?)?

In central Ohio we experienced something similar in our public schools a couple of years ago in which they were faking grades and attendance. If I recall correctly, and I don't always as I get older, a school resource officer was involved in some way. I don't remember the details other than the person apparently responsible had been frequently praised in the media - another story for another time. Similar but nothing to the extent of what was happening in the Florida school.


ajt, thanks. Good to know my thoughts make sense to at least one other person!

Believe it or not, that super-rare and ultra-collectable Glock revolver is still ‘available’.... though I’ve stopped listing it for public sale.... you wouldn’t believe some of the nasty comments and ugly insinuations I’ve received about it! Some people seem to have lost all trust in their fellow man...

Let me know if you’re still interested, as a fellow forum member it goes without saying that I’d give you an unimaginably ‘great’ deal on it.... Maybe I forgot to mention, it comes with a genuine “certificate of authenticity”, personally signed by yours truly, along with one other signature which looks to me like ‘Gaston Glock’; but which unfortunately is a little bit too smudged to be entirely legible...

In the interest of ‘full disclosure’: I’ve got several other buyers who appear to be on the verge of purchasing it, so better act fast... I’d love to see it end up in the hands of someone who can truly appreciate it for what it is.... and I’d hate to see you miss out on what is truly ‘a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity’.....


For anyone interested in more on the ‘Promise’ campaign in Broward County, Ann Coulter recently wrote a column entitled ‘Racial quotas in school discipline kill kids’, worth checking out IMHO.

LB

"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish, that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on March 09 2018 09:28:06 AM
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ajt
Average Member

USA
267 Posts

Posted - March 09 2018 :  10:13:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
LittleBill, I'm thinking very strongly about that Glock Revolver. In fact, I've scoured the furniture cushions and came up with nearly a whole $1 and am going to go down to the corner market and see if I can get the proprietor to sell me a discounted lottery ticket. You will be the first person that I contact, right after the lottery commission, when I win! (Don't worry about Gaston's signature - after all I've read that he is in his eighties. It will probably look a lot like mine when I sign the check for you ... .) I really appreciate you hanging on to it for me!

I read Ann Coulter's posts. That's insane. By that reasoning if you have two different racial groups and one person in one group commits a violation that requires discipline then you must also pick one person from the group who didn't do anything wrong and discipline that person also, just to keep things equal. Or ignore the violation of the person that committed it. How would they handle that? Let see, based on the case from the Florida school ... . (Isn't this where Rod Serling would step in and give his introduction and welcome to the Twighlight Zone?)
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4950 Posts

Posted - March 09 2018 :  11:28:26 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah, "disparate impact": any inequality in outcome automatically means discrimination. And Federal money is contingent on being able to 'show' that you're not discriminating.

So you can either arrest one White person and one Black person for every Hispanic you arrest... or, even easier, just stop arresting anyone.... which is what Broward decided to do.

Just one of the many things we have Obama's AG Eric Holder to thank for.

I'll do my best to hold that 'Glockvolver' for you. I'm getting a strong feeling that "it's meant to be" for you to own it. So best of luck on that lottery ticket. Remember, somebody's gotta win... why not you?

"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish, that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast
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Evan
Administrator

34322 Posts

Posted - March 09 2018 :  1:21:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
When you're "led" by cowards and get suspended for running towards the sound of gunfire and there is not massive civilian outrage over this, you're basically screwed.

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3223 Posts

Posted - March 09 2018 :  1:34:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Evan

When you're "led" by cowards and get suspended for running towards the sound of gunfire and there is not massive civilian outrage over this, you're basically screwed.



+1. They make movies about those who 'run to the sound of the guns'. They don't make movies about those bureaucratic slugs who hold those heroes back. Yet... in a place like Broward County, FL, they keep electing those 'no load' bureaucrats.

And then they wonder why their kids are dead at the hands of someone who should have been in jail.

The stupidity of liberals never ceases to amaze me.

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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gw
Advanced Member

4279 Posts

Posted - March 09 2018 :  7:25:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
newest released audio seems to show the SRO is a liar

his panicked radio dispatches also confused the scene , he told the responders to stand off 500 feet.....

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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revjen45
Advanced Member

2283 Posts

Posted - March 11 2018 :  01:27:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It was noted that the Coral Springs PD was operating on information that was 20-30 min old because Sheriff Israel had the delay to allow erasing the videos of the crimes they were covering up. When SRO Peterson got word of a crime the tape delay gave him the time he needed to delete it so no record would exist. This level of corruption and depraved indifference is outrageous, even for an administration of Democrats. I called CSPD to say "good on ya."
I'm not a cop and all the facts aren't in. All I can say is if I lived in Broward County and was experiencing conflict with armed bad guys I wouldn't dial 911 and call BCSO. I would call on God and Mr. Mossberg for help, and call the BCSO just to report it as req'd after it's all over with but the shouting. Maybe they can paint yellow stripes on their cars to increase visibility.

Better to perish in the struggle for freedom than live to see defeat.

Edited by - revjen45 on March 13 2018 11:43:19 PM
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