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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4135 Posts

Posted - October 12 2017 :  10:09:24 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Mike

Hi," Columbia River Knife and Tool" CRKT put out a RMJ designed tool around $150 or if you don't care about handle color around $80. (close out on the CRKT web site ). There was a lot of "hoop-la" but that died down. I often wondered if they had a disagreement. I never expected this much discussion on these tools/weapons; you pick, regards, Mike


The 'tricky' thing about knives, hatchets, tomahawks--- or any steel tool for that matter--- is that, in terms of performance under adverse conditions, it's all about the steel--- what kind, how it was tempered--- and that's something you can't determine just by looking at them.

You can have two tools that look almost identical; but one is hard and brittle, easily broken under hard use; while the other is tougher and more 'shockproof' under hard use. As I understand it, that's why Busse knives have such a following: their INFI steel outperforms other blade steels when the knife is put to really hard use.

For many uses, 'extreme performance' is a moot point. If you're just wanting a hatchet to split kindling with, or couple hawks to practice throwing with, who cares if they break? The CRKT 'knockoffs' will likely do you just fine.

But if you're wanting a tool that will give you the best possible performance under extreme conditions, that's where the RMJ tomahawks stand out. But yeah: for most uses, that sort of toughness is overkill.

(If you want to see some really expensive hawks, check out Daniel Winkler's offerings.)


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on October 12 2017 10:13:02 AM
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gw
Advanced Member

3865 Posts

Posted - October 12 2017 :  10:28:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LittleBill

quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Mike

Hi," Columbia River Knife and Tool" CRKT put out a RMJ designed tool around $150 or if you don't care about handle color around $80. (close out on the CRKT web site ). There was a lot of "hoop-la" but that died down. I often wondered if they had a disagreement. I never expected this much discussion on these tools/weapons; you pick, regards, Mike


The 'tricky' thing about knives, hatchets, tomahawks--- or any steel tool for that matter--- is that, in terms of performance under adverse conditions, it's all about the steel--- what kind, how it was tempered--- and that's something you can't determine just by looking at them.

You can have two tools that look almost identical; but one is hard and brittle, easily broken under hard use; while the other is tougher and more 'shockproof' under hard use. As I understand it, that's why Busse knives have such a following: their INFI steel outperforms other blade steels when the knife is put to really hard use.

For many uses, 'extreme performance' is a moot point. If you're just wanting a hatchet to split kindling with, or couple hawks to practice throwing with, who cares if they break? The CRKT 'knockoffs' will likely do you just fine.

But if you're wanting a tool that will give you the best possible performance under extreme conditions, that's where the RMJ tomahawks stand out. But yeah: for most uses, that sort of toughness is overkill.

(If you want to see some really expensive hawks, check out Daniel Winkler's offerings.)





INFI used today is not the same stuff that was used before 2002

prior to that there was trace amounts of Cobalt and Nitrogen present

today chemical anaylisis looks like 50100B with a lower Carbon content

their heat treat might be a benefit, but the material stucture does not look much diffenernt from Kabar Cro-Van to me.

edge geometry and shape improve cutting ability about as much as anything, a 4 dollar crowbar is about as tough as anything out there, thats nothing but basic carbon steel with proper heat treat.

just my thoughts on steel

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4135 Posts

Posted - October 12 2017 :  11:44:26 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gw

quote:
Originally posted by LittleBill

quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Mike

Hi," Columbia River Knife and Tool" CRKT put out a RMJ designed tool around $150 or if you don't care about handle color around $80. (close out on the CRKT web site ). There was a lot of "hoop-la" but that died down. I often wondered if they had a disagreement. I never expected this much discussion on these tools/weapons; you pick, regards, Mike


The 'tricky' thing about knives, hatchets, tomahawks--- or any steel tool for that matter--- is that, in terms of performance under adverse conditions, it's all about the steel--- what kind, how it was tempered--- and that's something you can't determine just by looking at them.

You can have two tools that look almost identical; but one is hard and brittle, easily broken under hard use; while the other is tougher and more 'shockproof' under hard use. As I understand it, that's why Busse knives have such a following: their INFI steel outperforms other blade steels when the knife is put to really hard use.

For many uses, 'extreme performance' is a moot point. If you're just wanting a hatchet to split kindling with, or couple hawks to practice throwing with, who cares if they break? The CRKT 'knockoffs' will likely do you just fine.

But if you're wanting a tool that will give you the best possible performance under extreme conditions, that's where the RMJ tomahawks stand out. But yeah: for most uses, that sort of toughness is overkill.

(If you want to see some really expensive hawks, check out Daniel Winkler's offerings.)





INFI used today is not the same stuff that was used before 2002

prior to that there was trace amounts of Cobalt and Nitrogen present

today chemical anaylisis looks like 50100B with a lower Carbon content

their heat treat might be a benefit, but the material stucture does not look much diffenernt from Kabar Cro-Van to me.

edge geometry and shape improve cutting ability about as much as anything, a 4 dollar crowbar is about as tough as anything out there, thats nothing but basic carbon steel with proper heat treat.

just my thoughts on steel


Yeah, most of the smaller Busse are too thick for my taste. I've got a couple of the bigger ones I like.

You obviously know more about blade steel than I do. I did find those 'test-to-destruction' knife tests someone was doing a while back to be instructive: whatever 'generation' of INFI the Battle Mistress he was testing was made of, it performed better than any other blade ever had, in terms of toughness and durability.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on October 12 2017 11:54:35 AM
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gw
Advanced Member

3865 Posts

Posted - October 12 2017 :  2:31:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't know what I know about steel...

I was a Test Engineer when I worked for a living and hung out with a lot of tool and die guys, metals were more of a hobby for me.

never owned a Busse but do know they are well regarded

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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