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Senior Member

568 Posts

Posted - July 25 2021 :  1:40:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was having some thoughts about flat nose vs round nose practice rounds and which would be most effective if they had to be pressed into service for self defense. I donít know if Iím right but Iíve gotten the impression that a flat nose bullet would cause more damage than a round nose. In a caliber like .32 ACP where its recommended not to use a hollow point, would a flat nose be better than a round nose?

To go along with that, I was wondering about some Winchester ammunition. The M1152, the Modular Handgun System round, marketed as ďActive DutyĒ is a 115gr flat nose round and is loaded 10%-15% higher than a normal 9mm loading (I take this to be approximately a +P load). The militaryís requirement was this new load to be more effective than the old 9 mm load they were using.

Iíve also come across another load from Winchester in 9mm which is marketed as USA Ready, RED9. This is also a flat nose bullet loaded at standard pressures. Its advertised as being more accurate and can be used for competition. (I think the RED9 load came on the market around the same time as the M1152.)

So the questions I have is
1. Is a flat nose bullet more effective than a round nose bullet?
2. Would you speculate that the RED9 load is the standard pressure equivalent to the M1152?
3. Is the 115 gr bullet the same bullet between the RED9 and the M1152?


34864 Posts

Posted - July 25 2021 :  2:13:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No idea but I doubt you'd see any difference among. When LAPD went from round nose lead they picked a 125 gr jsp +p and saw no difference in stopping power.

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

3839 Posts

Posted - July 25 2021 :  2:58:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A flat nose bullet will create more tissue damage than a RN, but not as much as a hollowpoint that does expand and penetrate. From dealing with hunting loads and game performance, velocity is a key with a flat nose --- the faster you drive it the more damage it does.
The Winchester "Active Duty" load billmc mentions seems to be the military's answer to RN/FMJ. Beyond that I can't answer the questions.

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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Advanced Member

6020 Posts

Posted - July 27 2021 :  5:39:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's my understanding that a flat-point bullet not only causes more damage as it travels through flesh and bone, but also that it tends to 'push through' in a more straight line than a round-nose bullet, which is more likely to divert and follow bone, such as a rib or the skull. BITD, the 'experts' I talked to or read their articles recommended semi-wadcutters over round-nose for those reasons. Lately, some are attracted to full wadcutters for the same reason, which theory I could be convinced makes sense, if the lead in the bullet isn't too soft and there is enough velocity to give decent penetration. Then again, there are a lot of anecdotes wherein even 'weak' target wadcutters have done well.

Personally, for defensive purposes, I plan to try and stay with proven hollow points. Hunting, my .44Spl and .45 Colt are usually loaded with hard-cast SWC, but I haven't had opportunity to shoot enough critters through the ribs/lungs to speak with any authority; for now I'll just trust the words of Chris, Jim H., and others who have had more experience.

Not familiar with the RED9 and M1152; sounds like a research project this evening. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
If pro-gunners are as murderous as anti-gunners claim, why are there so many anti-gunners still running their mouths?
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