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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
5716 Posts

Posted - May 31 2021 :  1:50:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A shout out and hats off to all military personnel, past and present. With a special remembrance to all those who gave their lives to consecrate this day.

Jeff

jle3030

oldmuleskinner
Advanced Member

1034 Posts

Posted - May 31 2021 :  3:15:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Amen!!!

Each of us is an innkeeper, and we decide if there is room for Jesus.
Neal A. Maxwell
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Pop Pop
Advanced Member

USA
1467 Posts

Posted - June 06 2021 :  09:50:34 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was on a camping trip when this was posted. I will say there is not a day goes by that I don't think of my 4 years in the military. Vietnam 67-68 at Danang. My diminished health reminds me every day. I am 73 now, and have had a good life with a wonderful family. God has blessed me immensely. No gripes from me. Still having a good time. Thank all military Veterans, and Police officers, for their service to our society.

IMO, the Police are the new "whippin" boys of today's society. Just saw San Francisco is cutting the Police budget. Sure, right thing to do, not. Just look at that city!!!!

Pop Pop
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5993 Posts

Posted - June 06 2021 :  1:33:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Today--June 6--is a time to remember the D-Day invasion. Thanks to those 18-19-20-year-old kids who sacrificed so much for us. Without them, we'd all be speaking German or Japanese, and not have the few freedoms we still enjoy.

Today, say something mean to a 18-19-20-year-old, and they have to find a safe place and a puppy, because words hurt feelings. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
If pro-gunners are as murderous as anti-gunners claim, why are there so many anti-gunners still running their mouths?
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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
5716 Posts

Posted - June 06 2021 :  9:53:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
When we were growing up it was widely accepted that young American men had a military obligation to be satisfied in service to their country. Registering for the draft at age eighteen was a rite of passage. Even in peacetime a person could be drafted. Even Elvis. Today it's different. Many young Americans have been taught to hate this country. They abhor the military and would never willingly serve. Not that the military would want them. They are a much diminished species; the American snowflake. There is much to be said for an all voluntary military, but I believe the country is poorer for the lack of widespread military training, discipline, and patriotism.

Our family is seeing firsthand what the military can do for a young man. The youngest grandson shipped out to Parris Island in late January. He was diagnosed at an early age with ADHD and was medicated accordingly. He struggled organizationally and in school. He kicked the meds two years ago, but concluded that he really needed to follow his dad's footsteps and get through Marine boot camp to set himself straight. He always had a fighting spirit. His dad called him "My little Viking". One night a DI shouted in his face that "I'm going to personally see you off this island!" The temper flared and he shouted back in the DI's face "Lots of luck trying to break this recruit, Sir!" Things apparently got ugly for a few minutes as both parties overstepped their boundaries. The next day the Sergeant took him aside and asked "We're OK aren't we? Nothing happened last night did it?" The reply was correct. "This recruit didn't see a thing, Sir." My grandson knew there was a price to be paid and for the rest of boot camp he got a lot of extra attention from every DI in the company. But he knew the game and the more they laid on the harrassment the stronger he got. Which was the whole idea of becoming a Marine in the first place. We can read his confidence in his letters and hear it in his voice on the phone. He's a better version of his old self. I wonder how many of our modern American college activists could even begin to hack that program.

Jeff

jle3030
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Pop Pop
Advanced Member

USA
1467 Posts

Posted - June 07 2021 :  09:26:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I spent 67-68 at Danang Air Base. Was in a 820th Red Horse Battalion(Heavy Equipment Operator) Was not in active combat, but backed the Marines on the South perimeter of the base during the Teat offensive of 68. Was dug in a fox hole about 50 yards behind the first first line. Viet Cong overran the North perimeter and destroyed several planes and men. Cong only sent a diversionary force at us on the South end. The gun ships and helicopters kept them at bay. We had intense incoming rockets attacks off and on for 3 weeks both day and night.

That is where I grew from a boy to a man. For the first 3 nights I was totally terrified. The sounds and sights of fighting were both awesome and terrifying at the same time. I did not sleep for 3 days . I finally told myself, "Well, there is nothing I can do about this situation, so I am just going to kill every enemy soldier I can until they kill me, if they cross that fence line." After making that determination the fear totally left me. My outlook on life changed after that experience. May be different for others, but that is my story of a 19 year old's journey, at the time.

My father told me before I left for Vietnam. He said, "Son, you will either come back from that war a man or a mouse." I never understood what he meant by that, until years afterwards. What he was saying some men can not cross that line until they are faced with that situation of taking another's life.

We had soldiers that could not and some ended up a mental case and others with scars on their self esteem. I often wonder how they progresses through life.

Not many men know when they go from being a boy inside, to becoming a man. Not a day that goes by that I don't remember my military service and that time spent (3 weeks) in that fox hole and watching and witnessing real war playing out in front of me and knowing I could die at any moment.

I thank all soldiers for their service.


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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3824 Posts

Posted - June 07 2021 :  1:54:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Pop Pop... I've never heard it described better! Me, Navy 1968-1978. 1970/71 in Nam on PBRs/Special Boat Units in IV Corp. The World is strange when you first get there. But your current 'life situation' starts kicking in the first time you see those green tracers heading your way and suddenly realize "These guys want to kill me!"
It's a significant Heads Up On Life.
May God Bless all who served -- even the REMFs.



Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.

Edited by - Chris Christian on June 07 2021 1:55:58 PM
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Pop Pop
Advanced Member

USA
1467 Posts

Posted - June 07 2021 :  2:51:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Chris, the Navy guys patrolling on the Mekong River was one of the reasons Admiral Zumwalt started spraying Agent Orange. The enemy snipers were so close to the river banks they could pick your guys off easily in those boats. The Air Force C123s sprayed and defoliated the river banks which moved the snipers away and out of range. That spraying saved many soldiers lives during those times. A thing of interest Admiral Zumwalt's son died of agent orange caused cancer at 41 years old. Memories!

Pop Pop
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WR Moore
Advanced Member

USA
1055 Posts

Posted - June 07 2021 :  5:41:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It took decades, but I finally realized there was an hidden benefit to the draft, at least if done as originally intended. And, I hate to label it, but it was social integration.

The guys from the big cities found out that the guys from the country weren't ignorant hillbillies who had very close relations with other family members. The country guys found out that the city guys could be decent people. And, some of the college kids found out that they really might not be the smartest guy in the room when it came to practical matters. Maybe more importantly, you learned to work with folks you might not like or who were different. This isn't to hint that all this fellowship took place by singing folk songs around a campfire, but everyone learned to work with others.

Besides the me, me, me attitude of entirely too many today, they have a distressing tendency to view people not of their group as being a lower life form. This isn't a recipe for a sustainable society.

Beware the politically obsessed. They are often bright and interesting, but they have something missing in their natures, there is a hole, an empty place and they use politics to fill it up. It leaves them somehow misshapen. Peggy Noonan


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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
5716 Posts

Posted - June 08 2021 :  09:49:04 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In high school we had a rich kid who was too smart for his own good. He managed to acquire all the parts for a Thompson submachine gun. Then he had to try out his new gun, so he shredded a Crosley. (Extra credit if you remember those.) The judge gave him the option: jail time or enlist in the Marine Corps. He picked the Marines. I've always wondered how that worked out.

Jeff

jle3030
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fiasconva
Average Member

USA
302 Posts

Posted - June 08 2021 :  3:26:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Back in the 50's and 60's judges giving young guys arrested for things like that a choice of jail or military was a pretty common thing to do in my area of NC. Military basic was tough enough back then to straighten most of them out. Not having one bit of control over your life 24/7 for a while does that. Falling down the steps and getting covered with bruises always seemed to help learning to follow the DI's rules for the worst screw-ups.

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson

Edited by - fiasconva on June 08 2021 3:31:24 PM
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Pop Pop
Advanced Member

USA
1467 Posts

Posted - June 08 2021 :  4:43:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
One thing I remember about basic is the very first day there we marched to the chow hall and they filled us with food laced with saltpeter. I never figured out how the fat guys got skinny, and the skinny guys gained weight, all eating the same chow. Afterwards they marched us to the barracks and put us to bed. At 3:00 the next morning the DI came down the hall with a metal trash can and had a bottle in it running around and it sounded like a thrashing machine, all the while yelling get up children at he top of his voice. I knew I was in for a wild ride. We had one wise guy from NYC and they assigned him the last bed at the end of the hall. If he was not out of the bed when the got to the end of the hall they would grab the lower rail of his bed and flip him upside down.

In 66, when I was drafted, I knew if I didn't go to college all the young graduates were put into the military with many bound for Vietnam. College didn't hold any interest to me at that time.

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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5993 Posts

Posted - June 08 2021 :  6:29:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
An old Army uncle--old uncle and old-Army--told me when I was headed to basic training 'Never volunteer. Don't ever raise your hand.' First experience with that was 'Who here smokes?' Some hands went up. 'Who here doesn't smoke?' Some other hands went up--except for me and a couple other guys. 'Who here didn't raise your hand for either one?' Now how do you get out of that? We didn't, and guess who got to police the barracks area for cigarette butts?

Second experience, after five or six weeks, we were all in the 'rec room' cleaning gear, and Drill Sergeant steps in the door and says 'I need a volunteer.' We all focused intently on the task at hand, knowing better than to look up and make eye contact. He said 'Somebody volunteer, or I'll volunteer you.' So one of the guys bit the bullet, and raised his hand. Sarge said 'OK, good; you get a weekend pass.' On of our less intelligent trainees said 'I'd like to volunteer, too.' Sarge said 'I'm proud of you, son; you can police the latrines this weekend.'

Never try to get over on Sarge. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
If pro-gunners are as murderous as anti-gunners claim, why are there so many anti-gunners still running their mouths?
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billmc
Senior Member

557 Posts

Posted - June 09 2021 :  12:28:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You guys are bringing back some memories. I guess that some things never change. I was in AF basic training in the fall of '78.

Volunteering, my father told me not to. The time comes and they are asking for volunteers, my hand stays down to the very end. The guys that raised their hands first got the best jobs. Those of us that didn't volunteer got latrine duty.

There was one guy in my flight from NYC. Keep in mind, we all had the same amount of money, got paid twice during basic and could only spend the money we had, at the BX when they took us to get soap and shampoo, oh yeah to pay for our hair cuts as well (I, along with some others thought the hair cut thing was a racket. After all, they shaved our heads when we got there, how much hair could you grow every couple of weeks.). This guy from NY decided he wanted to start a loan shark business. I can still remember his sales pitch. The only thing he hadn't figured on was that no one needed any more money than we had. His business venture didn't succeed.

The bunks on either side of mine, one guy came from Alaska the other guy from Washington State. During the initial shakedown, they relieved the guy from Alaska of his 10 inch Bowie knife. That guy told me that he hadn't eaten anything for three days when he found a recruiting office; he didn't even know which branch it was for. He said he walked into the office, told the recruiter to sign him up and give him something to eat.

The guy from Washington State said the judge gave him a choice, the military or jail. Seeing as how we went through basic training together, you can guess which choice he made.
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