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Pop Pop
Advanced Member

USA
1281 Posts

Posted - March 10 2020 :  12:59:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How many of you have problems getting your wife to train for a bad day? I don't do this often but my sweetie just doesn't want to think about such things.

I will start this our with the fact I like to read gun Magazines. I sometimes use Massad Ayoob's articles to educate myself. In the May/June issue of American Handgunner, which I just received today, has articles in "The Ayoob Files," Titled Home Invasion: The Coker Family Incident.

This event happened in Jacksonville Florida, in a "nice" neighborhood, in 2014. Chris may be failure with this story as he lives in Fla. At 6:20 the next morning the Coker family underwent a life and death struggle with 3 Jacksonville Gang members, of "The Cutthroat Committee" which the gang called themselves. Only one ended up waging the deadly battle, in the home invasion. The 2 others fled the scene after the battle started.

This grandfather(asleep in is room), and awaken grandmother, who had a young grandson spending the night and was asleep in a bedroom, waged the battle for their lives that early morning of the 15th.

After finishing reading the article I told my sweetie I wanted her to read and discuss the article with me. She shrugged her shoulders and said she didn't want too, left the den and went to take her morning shower. I don't ask her to do this often, maybe a couple times per year, but I always get the same response. By the way our grandson spent the night with us last evening as well.

I hope you guys have a better time getting your wives involved. This article was an all out battle both the man and women fought together to defeat a 20'ish Y O intruder, evidently, intent on killing them both.

At this moment my grandson and her are preparing meatloaf dinner, for us and his mom who will pick grandboy up at 1:30. After sweetie finishes her morning of grand motherhood, I intend to get her to read this article and do some teaching with her.

One thing I do know, the perp in the article kicked in the door on the Coker's home, which they are not going to be able to do on our home, because I hardened the entry doors on our house before hand. The Coker's did that after their battle.

Can someone kick your door in, and gain entry to your home? By the way Mr Coker was slow to the battle also. He answered the screams from his wife, with nothing in his hand.

My plan is her and I are going to do some serious, together training in the next few weeks so we can be on the same page if this ever happens to us. My wife has her own guns,(revolvers) and can fire them well, but I want her to get familiar with my guns, and where they are, if she needs them in an emergency.

The Coker's were plagued with a 5 shot snubbie that never solved their immediate pressing problem. My wife has an LCR 38spl, and a Lady Smith mdl 65 loaded with Cor Bon DPX 38 spl for her house gun.

I also want her to see the problems the Coker's had with the limited 5 shot snubbie, and want to impress her to grab the 40 cal pistol by my bed with 14 rounds in it, and show her why it is a better choice in this situation the Coker's faced because of the 40 ammo compacity if we are ever forced to defend ourselves. Guys, if you don't tell them, then they don't know, RIGHT?

I will post how our afternoon goes. Wish me luck!

Pop Pop

Edited by - Pop Pop on March 10 2020 1:08:09 PM

Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3740 Posts

Posted - March 10 2020 :  1:53:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Pop Pop… I'm not so certain that a semi-auto pistol, in the hands of a moderately trained shooter is a better bet than a revolver for immediate response to a home invasion. Semi-autos can jam, especially if they have to be pressed against an attacker that is on top of you. Revolvers are less prone to that. If your sweetie is comfortable with revolvers, why change. Just have something bigger waiting, close by and easily accessible, for when she pumps those five rounds into the threats.

That would take more training, but it would be secondary to her current knowledge of the revolvers. Which she knows how to use now.

My two nightstand guns are both revolvers... first thing I grab for that 'bump in the night'. If I need more, it's available in different rooms (AR, 9mm 20-round mag, etc.)

But, for the reasons listed above I'll still grab a revolver first.









Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.

Edited by - Chris Christian on March 10 2020 1:56:21 PM
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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
5614 Posts

Posted - March 10 2020 :  3:31:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I read somewhere - maybe here - that the incidence of malfunctions with autoloaders is much higher in actual shootouts than in training or just out on the shooting range. I'd venture to guess that the majority of these incidents occur with non dedicated shooters having to use those guns under stress. As Bill Jordan opined in his classic "No Second Place Winner", "A man who is being shot at, or is about to be, has all the complication he needs". Jordan, a Marine combat veteran and renowned Border Patrol gunfighter knew all about autopistols but remained a confirmed revolver devotee. If the wife prefers revolvers, I would embrace that and instruct accordingly.

Jeff

jle3030
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Evan
Administrator

34728 Posts

Posted - March 10 2020 :  6:49:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
When we had been married 40 years my wife suddenly said that she wanted to get her ccw. Without repeating this rather lengthy store-LET HER SHOOT SEVERAL HANDGUNS AND LET HER CHOOSE WHAT SHE LIKES. I thought I knew what she wanted and she ended up with my Smith 640.Frankly, she's a better shot than I am probably because she never read a single copy of Blood&Guts magazine.

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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oldmuleskinner
Senior Member

970 Posts

Posted - March 10 2020 :  7:11:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree with all of the above. My wife's weapon of choice is her J frame Smith .38 Special.

Each of us is an innkeeper, and we decide if there is room for Jesus.
Neal A. Maxwell
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Pop Pop
Advanced Member

USA
1281 Posts

Posted - March 10 2020 :  9:06:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the responses. My grandson and daughter left and we sit down and she read the article. In the story the lady brought her J frame to the husband, and he fired it, from the hip, and hit the perp in the heart and forearm, 2 out of the 5 times as they fought hand to hand. I wanted my wife to realize thugs don't always stop after being shot, and that the j frame ran dry, and she had to go retrieve another gun for her husband, which the lady was forced to use to shoot the perp in the neck, paralyzing the perp, who shortly passed away from the heart shot, so the med examiner ascertained.

My wife has never witnessed a real life/death fight and I wanted to expose her to a real one, at least in print. We sit and discussed what happened to the Cokers, and talked about what we should do if involved with a serious situation ourselves. No two fights are the same, and I know that, but if one is never exposed to what might happen, how are they going to react. She looked intently at the response of the victims wife, and how she responded in a stressful situation even though seriously injured. Call it what you may, how else is an old codger like myself going to make her understand how serious a fight for one's life is without some kind of example and discussions about what others did? I wish you guys could read the story and you could see how one might have a profitable discussion with their wife.

You old coppers lived these stories. My wife has not, so I wanted to expose her to it, so if she ever needs to respond, she could at least have some Idea of how someone else did it and survived, however with serious life long injury aftermath.

Chirs, and others, your point about the revolvers is noted. I carry one when I am awake. In the article the lady retrieved another revolver, her husbands bedside gun, and had to use it herself from a short distance, as the husband and perp were entangled, still fighting, on the floor.

It started out 3 against the husband and ended up being a 23 year old gang member, x con, against a 65 year old, but the old guy had a good accounting for himself. The wife was injured seriously early in the fight.

My wife learned from our discussion, and sees why I wanted her to read and discuss this article. It was a good teaching afternoon.

Yesterday I had to dispatch a skunk, in my back yard, at 3 in the afternoon, in bright sunshine. We have had 3 rabied skunks here previously, and I would bet this guy was also, because he was out in broad daylight. She asked me, this afternoon, to teach her how to use the 22 rifle, that I shot the skunk with, out my back door. She is getting it, a little more, as we go along. It is my fear she will be alone sooner or later because my health is not good. I desperately want her to know how to protect herself if I am not around.

My wife has not had the advantages of your wife Evan, because she seen what your life's work has been, and you lived through much. I don't have that example for my sweetie, as a postal clerk, and must use everything in my power to help make her understand what one must do to survive a brutal attack, as much as I can. I don't want her afraid to sleep at night, like I have seen some other widows do. I pray for the best, but try to prepare her for the worst. That is my goal, and I believe I have been able to kick that can down the road a little further. She is a good shot with her revolvers, on the range, but? Working on mindset here.

I am going to introduce pistol shooting to her soon so she can take advantage of both. It is goo for her to know both systems, IMO. Then she has choice.

She told me after reading the article, "Man, that was brutal!!" Yes, most life and death battles are brutal, I am sure you all will agree. We also discussed the aftermath...…...sometimes Brutal also.



Pop Pop

Edited by - Pop Pop on March 11 2020 1:02:50 PM
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Dov
Advanced Member

USA
2771 Posts

Posted - March 10 2020 :  10:12:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think it's good planning to select home defense weapons that are accessible to all responsible family members based on what least skilled or least capable (due to injury, age, health issues, etc) can handle well.

A 20 gauge or 223 isn't going to be a limiting factor even if you or I might prefer 308 or 12 gauge. Actually with my health issues I go with 223 or 30-30 over the 12 gauge now, unless it's a very light recoiling 12 gauge.

Based on my limited work teaching self defense to women, I think more time needs to be spent on convincing them it is acceptable to use force to stop a violent criminal.

Not all but many more women than men in my experience have been conditioned not to use force or even assertiveness even when it's what situation requires.

Or at least realize ahead of time if they won't be able to use physical or lethal force, if you know ahead of time you can at least work on next most effect response.

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Pop Pop
Advanced Member

USA
1281 Posts

Posted - March 11 2020 :  11:08:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dove, my wife has carried for 8 years and understands why she may be forced to protect herself from a violent criminal. I believe she will, and I know she has the ability to shoot well. Of course she must choose, on her own, to use the knowledge she has on this subject, but that was my reasoning for having her read these people's story on how they survived. It is all about having her posses a proper mindset about violence, and possible violence being directed toward her or I. Also I wanted her to realize these things happen fast. When she watched the church shooting in Texas, she was astonished how fast that threat developed, and how fast it was over.

We travel a lot, and as many know even stopping for fuel is a danger In and of itself. Most times Diesel fuel is away from most car pump islands and over to her edge of the parking area. We both watch out for each other during that process now. When I am out of the vehicle she stays in and watches for me. We never go to the restroom at the same time so we can keep an eye out for each other and our rig, but if we do the rig is totally locked. I always do a walk around the rig before leaving and she watches me. Both of us are armed at all times. My father almost got into a bad situation, around Atlanta, several years ago and he impressed upon me how dangerous thing can become while you are out of the safety of a locked truck, or car.

I almost was robbed myself, in Montgomery Alabama, due to my stupidity, several years ago. I has stopped, un-be-knoinced to me, in a bad part of town because of my son-in-law's car trouble. He wanted to make a call and I took him to a phone booth in a stop and go parking lot. Bad decision. Got out of my car and was leaning on the top of my car while he made the call, another bad decision, and a drunk thug walked up behind be because I was not being observant and totally in condition white. He had a Snubbie revolver grip protruding from his right pocket. It scared my SNL so bad he hung up the phone, and was climbing in the passenger side as I was hightailing it away form the parking lot as fast as we could. He demanded money. Live-and-learn. We both felt lucky we got out of that one, so one can't be too careful anywhere.

Pop Pop
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Evan
Administrator

34728 Posts

Posted - March 11 2020 :  2:22:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I found that women are often ready to bring a more realistic view to the table because of their role as mothers.

Ad, frankly, I thing that there are enough bad days ahead to meet anyone's hunger.

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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