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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
5435 Posts

Posted - April 27 2019 :  4:42:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'll admit to not having paid attention to the lead up to the current NRA financial and leadership crisis. Now that I'm trying to find out about it I'm finding the news reports confusing at best.

Can anyone give a synopsis of who stands where on the issues?

At this point I'm trying to figure out if I even have a dog in this fight.

Jeff

jle3030

Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5572 Posts

Posted - April 27 2019 :  7:59:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
NRA has been oozing left for a long time. As I understand it, the in-fighting has to do with LaPierre and his cronies doing each other favors and making a lot of money for themselves, and not really focusing on the hard subjects in the Pro-2A battles. On top of that, they're in a (supposedly) life-and-death struggle with the State of New York, with NY's political machine pushing for all kinds of audits and investigations in an attempt to bankrupt the organization; the notices and requests I've been getting from NRA are saying that if they (we, I'm still a member and will continue to be one) will be shut down if they/we lose this fight.
That's the basics, by my understanding. The news media, even the conservative outlets, seem to be relishing the fact that there is 'trouble in paradise', and focusing on the in-fighting angle rather than the corrupt attempts by NY politicians to close them/us down. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
If pro-gunners are as murderous as anti-gunners claim, why are there so many anti-gunners still running their mouths?
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fiasconva
Junior Member

USA
249 Posts

Posted - April 28 2019 :  3:41:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Latest news is that Ollie has resigned and those in power are staying that way. NY is trying to do away with their tax exempt status since it was chartered there. Looks like it's going to be a struggle for a while.

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
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gauchobill
Advanced Member

1122 Posts

Posted - April 29 2019 :  07:26:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have been feeding cash to NRA for years. Their need for continuous cash inflows may be legitimate or it may be a source of loose money management. As a life member, I am gravitating to a demand for good accounting of money management. I know lobbying gets expensive; I know we are in a fight for the 2d Amendment; nevertheless, NRA owes its membership and supporters better accounting for money spent.
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gw
Advanced Member

4613 Posts

Posted - April 29 2019 :  08:36:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
the NRA lost me years ago, I was a Life member at one point, but I'm out

Wayne LaPierre and his crew are not gun people, they are hacks that use fear to estort money from the membership. LaPierre is siphoning millions of dollars away in salary and pension benefits. I wonder if the guy even owns a gun, I don't recall ever seeing him with one......

they have moved from promoting safe responsible gun ownership, now they are lobbyists knee deep in DC politics

they have laid down with dogs and came up with fleas

the leadership has been corrupt for years and needs to be cleaned out

their sleazy behavior has set them up to be taken down by their political enemies, bad days are coming

better organizations exist that support gun owners

just my thoughts

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

5465 Posts

Posted - April 29 2019 :  09:52:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What other gun rights organizations do you think are worth supporting?

I too have long been an NRA Life member... and I suppose I still am, since Iím still alive... but itís been many years since I gave them any money.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish, that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on April 29 2019 09:53:30 AM
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ASCTLC
Senior Member

739 Posts

Posted - April 29 2019 :  10:00:26 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I never sign up for "lifetime membership" anything for just this reason, you can never know where some organization ultimately ends up. Having said that, I am currently a 5 year member with ongoing evaluation to determine rejoining when that time is up.

I have a difficult time believing Oliver has anything but the best intentions for all things truly American, and more so as it regards to the Constitution of these United States. That means, for me, that my skepticism for LaPierre is very high right now.

As with religion not being what 'some' (despicable) priests/leaders demonstrate it is, LaPierre isn't the NRA to me...we the members are. And however difficult it could be, we have the ability to take it from his influence and keep it.

I remain watchful to how this ultimately plays out and the information that can come to light before making any final decisions.
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gw
Advanced Member

4613 Posts

Posted - April 29 2019 :  11:54:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LittleBill

What other gun rights organizations do you think are worth supporting?

I too have long been an NRA Life member... and I suppose I still am, since Iím still alive... but itís been many years since I gave them any money.





I shouldn't advertise for any group on this site, but state groups mght address regional issues more efficiently.

if you want to cancel your membership, send a signed letter to the Director of Membership

you might mention you are not happy that LaPierre has a lifetime salary totaling about 1.5 million/yr.

the NRA's high pressure techniques to extract donations was the first clue for me, then you realize that it's being used to stuff pockets at the top.

fool me once......

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

5465 Posts

Posted - April 29 2019 :  12:19:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah, any organization where the leaders are getting richer and richer, compared to their constituents, is problematic at the very least.

Iíll confess I havenít been paying a lot of attention. Is the NRA actually doing any good; in terms of fighting the liberalsí ongoing attempts to disarm us?

Iíd hesitate to resign my membership, just on the basis of how much liberals hate the NRA; following the line of reasoning that ĎThe enemy of my enemy is my friendí....


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish, that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3537 Posts

Posted - April 29 2019 :  2:29:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
An issue that might be being overlooked in the "NRA infighting" is that the NRA has a PR/Marketing firm as a vendor. Reports indicate that firm is billing them about 40 million a year. The NRA requested billing records to show what that money was being spent for. The PR firm refused to supply them. The NRA then filed a civil suit to obtain them.

That is when North sent his letter to La Pieare threatening to reveal derogatory information on him if the suit wasn't dropped. La Pieare called it extortion and refused. That's when the "stuff" started.

Oliver North is paid upwards of 1 million a years BY THE PR FIRM to produce/star in NRA TV American Hero segments... except, the required number are not being produced. Money is flowing to North without any of the product forthcoming. The lawsuit wants to look at where the money paid to the PR firm is going... North gets some of that... in addition to whatever his position as NRA President pays. The lawsuit wants an accurate billing accounting. The PR firm refused to provide it.

That is when North started the infighting. When La Pieare said no, North 'exited stage right'... with a bit of mud thrown on the way out.

I have no idea which side is right... I just know there are two sides... and one side refuses to tell they NRA where the money the NRA pays them is going.


Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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WR Moore
Senior Member

USA
958 Posts

Posted - April 29 2019 :  9:56:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I do realize that large organizations need a cash flow. That said, I'm sick of the various solicitations for everything under the sun. I'm also somewhat curious as the why the big TV productions. Watched one on another of those evenings where there was nothing else on or anything else to do. Couldn't stand the host. Wonder who's relative he is?

Beware the politically obsessed. They are often bright and interesting, but they have something missing in their natures, there is a hole, an empty place and they use politics to fill it up. It leaves them somehow misshapen. Peggy Noonan


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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1938 Posts

Posted - May 09 2019 :  01:16:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Chris, your synopsis jives with my understanding of events. Great job explaining that.

The PR firm has been soaking NRA for a very long time. I appreciate LaPierreís interest in asking where the money has been going, but wonder why heís been asleep at the wheel for so long, and is just now making a stink about it. Perhaps NY did us a favor by forcing the issue, or weíd still be flushing money down that drain.

I donít begrudge an executive making a good salary, especially in such an intense environment as DC, but do think it sounds like the brass was getting paid too much.

In the end, the NRA is not North, or LaPierre, or any of the execsóit is US. WE are the NRA, and I continue to be a proud Life Member. I support the mission, and think thereís no other group that has been a more effective lobbyist for our interests..

My favorite of the 2A groups is the Second Amendment Foundation, which is doing simply amazing work in the courts. Theyíre really making things happen, and get the bulk of my contributions.

I also support my state-level organizations, including CRPA and Calguns Foundation. Theyíre doing the heavy lifting here behind the Golden Curtain, with help from SAF and FPC. I think itís important to support your local groups, because theyíre the ones paying the most attention to happenings in your own backyard.

Our enemies are delighted that NRA is having these public problems. I wish we werenít going through it, but hope weíll come out on the other side with a better organization that manages the money better. We desperately need them to stay in the fight.

Mike
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3537 Posts

Posted - May 09 2019 :  06:50:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
+1 Mike!

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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Bill D
Advanced Member

USA
1225 Posts

Posted - May 09 2019 :  7:42:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The NRA needs our support now, once the libs get a foot in the door to cause more mayhem, not good...Bill Life NRA

Bill D
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Frogfoot
Senior Member

USA
860 Posts

Posted - May 10 2019 :  03:33:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm a life member as well and appreciate all that they do, but the devious ways they use to get you to answer a fund raising call are not appreciated by me. More than once, I've picked up the phone because the area code was local only to hear someone reading off of a script asking me for money.

We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give. - Sir Winston Churchill
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Bill D
Advanced Member

USA
1225 Posts

Posted - May 10 2019 :  12:39:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Forgot to mention that phone stuff Frogfoot. I wish they would stop that and get their financial house in order, Bill D

Bill D
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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1938 Posts

Posted - May 14 2019 :  4:54:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
New information indicates that LaPierre has been spending enormous sums of association funds on private jet travel and expensive suits. The clothing bill alone is reported to be around $250K for a 13 year period.

Again, I donít have a problem with paying an executive salary, but this seems wasteful, at best (and could potentially be criminal, at worst).

Northís financial arrangement with the PR firm also looks shady. Heís trying to don the whistleblower mantle, but this is looking more and more like the pot and kettle . . .

The BOD needs to clean house. Both LaPierre and North need to go, if weíre going to see the NRA survive and salvage its reputation. The membership is made up of decent, hard-working individuals, and weíre not being well-represented by these types.
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5572 Posts

Posted - May 14 2019 :  5:24:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've been getting the usual e-mail requests for donations, with the usual dire hysterical warnings of the 2A's demise if they don't get my $27-$1,000 check. Today I got one to enter a Gun Giveaway, no contribution required (but one would be appreciated). Realized I'm behind on my financial support, and decided to pick a couple guns (which I wouldn't win, because that never happens to me) AND include a donation.
Long story short, when I went to put in the card information for the donation, it had all the information needed to access the card, but there was no place to enter an amount. I hope they just goofed on the computer and don't really want unrestricted access to my bank account; but considering the current big hooraw going on....
Anyway, since they wouldn't let me designate an amount, I tried to just enter for the free drawing--it wouldn't let me without entering my bank card information. Guess I won't be getting that new pistol after all. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
If pro-gunners are as murderous as anti-gunners claim, why are there so many anti-gunners still running their mouths?
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montanaman
Advanced Member

1132 Posts

Posted - May 14 2019 :  6:05:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tell you what guys - I'm a life member too, and I think we owe them time to fix their problems.

During the whole 8 years of the Obama Regime, the NRA, us, and our allies stopped them from any major
anti-gun legislation.

I'm willing to cut them some slack here.

BUT - that doesn't mean a blank check, or Matthew 6 forgiveness - they do need to get their act together.

Paladin didn't need a semi-auto, or a laser sight, and always carried an extra gun.
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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1938 Posts

Posted - May 15 2019 :  11:33:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I donít want to burn the NRA House down, but itís looking more and more like it needs to be fumigated. LTC Allen West has painted a pretty clear picture of lies and deception, and the evidence of wasteful spending is mounting.

We have 3 Life Members in this household and want the organization to survive and thrive, but I donít see how that happens without some house cleaning. LaPierre needs totake his fancy suits and hit the road, along with Ollie and his fancy media contract.
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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1938 Posts

Posted - May 15 2019 :  6:17:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Absolutely! Thatís why the NRA must be saved!

It seems to me, the only way to save it, is to change the leadership.

While LaPierre remains in charge, the organization will have a dark cloud over it. There will be continuous questions about integrity and stewardship which will open the group (and the 2A effort) to attacks from our political enemies. We cannot allow the troubling situation with fraud/waste/abuse of NRA funds to detract from the pro-2A effort, but if LaPierre remains in place, thatís what will happen.

Also, all of us will become guilty by association. If we let someone with integrity issues remain as the voice and face of our group, what does that say about us? About our own integrity?

If youíre a congressman (or President) and youíre being lobbied by the NRA, wouldnít it make you hesitate to support their requests if the leaders of the group were under investigation for fraud/waste/abuse? Of course it would, especially if there were associated criminal charges (which is entirely possible, given the zeal of the NY AG to investigate and prosecute the NRA for suspected violations of the stateís tax laws).

There is little time to let this ride. Each day that we donít clean house, we risk further damage to our 2A objectives. As long as the current leadership stays in place, we will spend more time defending them than we will advancing our agenda. North is already gone, and Iíd like to see LaPierre follow. He needs to step down immediately, so that he doesnít become an obstacle to the NRAís political survival.

If he truly believed in the mission, thatís what he would do. The NRA is bigger and more important than Wayne LaPierre. Itís time for him to recognize that.
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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
5435 Posts

Posted - May 15 2019 :  7:29:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ten Driver

Absolutely! Thatís why the NRA must be saved!

It seems to me, the only way to save it, is to change the leadership.

While LaPierre remains in charge, the organization will have a dark cloud over it. There will be continuous questions about integrity and stewardship which will open the group (and the 2A effort) to attacks from our political enemies. We cannot allow the troubling situation with fraud/waste/abuse of NRA funds to detract from the pro-2A effort, but if LaPierre remains in place, thatís what will happen.

Also, all of us will become guilty by association. If we let someone with integrity issues remain as the voice and face of our group, what does that say about us? About our own integrity?

If youíre a congressman (or President) and youíre being lobbied by the NRA, wouldnít it make you hesitate to support their requests if the leaders of the group were under investigation for fraud/waste/abuse? Of course it would, especially if there were associated criminal charges (which is entirely possible, given the zeal of the NY AG to investigate and prosecute the NRA for suspected violations of the stateís tax laws).

There is little time to let this ride. Each day that we donít clean house, we risk further damage to our 2A objectives. As long as the current leadership stays in place, we will spend more time defending them than we will advancing our agenda. North is already gone, and Iíd like to see LaPierre follow. He needs to step down immediately, so that he doesnít become an obstacle to the NRAís political survival.

If he truly believed in the mission, thatís what he would do. The NRA is bigger and more important than Wayne LaPierre. Itís time for him to recognize that.

Agreed that LaPierre needs to go. How do you approach that when he just survived a purge attempt based on the very complaints we have listed here? We may need a new Board of Directors first.

Jeff

jle3030
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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1938 Posts

Posted - May 15 2019 :  8:52:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In the short term, I think the only avenue is to apply public pressure to the BOD and LaPierre, asking for him to step down. Certainly not a guaranteed plan, but itís all we can do right now.

Itís also important to recognize the playing field has changed since the Annual Meetings. Thanks to some investigative reporting, some of the things that were only known by insiders are now public. Additionally, there are new accusations that the BOD was lied to by the associationís financial folks, and didnít understand the true nature of the problem when they were asked to confirm his position.

I suspect that many members of the BOD are less enthusiastic about supporting LaPierreís Presidency now, after these changes. They are the ones who are best positioned to put some pressure on him, and they could use some prodding from us.
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