StoppingPower.net Forums
Home
Forums
Commentary
H&S
About
StoppingPower.net Forums

StoppingPower.net Forums - A better .357magnum snubby load?
StoppingPower.net Forums
StoppingPower.net Forums
Forums Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ | Invite a friend
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Shooting
 Wheelgun Chronicles
 A better .357magnum snubby load?
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Author  Topic Next Topic  

fsilber
Senior Member

USA
526 Posts

Posted - October 22 2018 :  8:29:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
First, a question. Jackeded bullets are made with the jacket in front. The base is bare. Then, to make a hollow-point, they open the other end as well. Is there any reason a bullet cannot have the jacket in the back? It would be like making a FMJ full wadcutter, and loading it base first.

Assuming you could do it, this is my idea.

Suppose you started with a .38 special 200g jacketed full wadcutter, to be loaded backwards. Let's say that the jacket need not fully reach the front end of the bullet, so the exposed part were slightly narrower than the bore. The rifling would engage the jacketed part in back.
It would be made with dead-soft lead, and you could put a hollow-point on the exposed lead in front, and maybe even make some cuts in the jacket behind it to further aid expansion. You load it to run at 800 to 900 fps out of a two-inch .357 revolver.

I imagine that to reach this velocity with a 200g bullet out of a two-inch gun the pressure would be significantly greater than that of a .38special, but still well below that of the hottest .357 magnums. To prevent the bullets from shifting in recoil, a good crimp would be put on the case mouth to grab the bullet (on the jacketed portion.

This would give a small-frame revolver the ballistics of a .44special, or even of a .45acp. The slower, heavier bullet would burn the powder more efficiently than a lightweight supersonic bullet, with less muzzle-flash and blast. It would be like having a Charter Arms .44 special bulldog the size of a Chief's special. Or, fired from a K-Frame, it would be like having a six-shot N-frame .44special the size of model 19/65.

Really, the only reason the famed Chicago / St. Louis load (158g LHP +P) used a 158g bullet is that the agency's revolvers were already sighted in for that -- but we can buy and sight-in our own guns.

And back then they couldn't make a 200g bullet go fast enough to open the hollow-point was that it would be over-pressure for a .38special -- but we now have 11oz J-frames that can stand up to the .357magnum 125g JHP (even if our hands and ears cannot).

But why bust the skin and bones in our hand and destroy our hearing as well, if the load I describe would be a better improvement over the 158g LHP +P?

Evan
Administrator

34384 Posts

Posted - October 22 2018 :  9:08:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The available rounds we have today have stood the test of time and I'm not so sure we can assume anything.

Al the jhps I've seen have a closed base I don't know where you're seeing them with an unjacketed base.

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

Go to Top of Page

Frogfoot
Senior Member

USA
851 Posts

Posted - October 23 2018 :  01:23:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
From what I remember, the Winchester Black Talon bullets (in .45 ACP anyway) were open at the base as well as the front, but it's the only JHP bullet designed for a handgun I've seen made like that.

We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give. - Sir Winston Churchill
Go to Top of Page

Frogfoot
Senior Member

USA
851 Posts

Posted - October 23 2018 :  01:27:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
From what I remember, the Winchester Black Talon bullets (in .45 ACP anyway) were open at the base as well as the front, but it's the only JHP bullet designed for a handgun I've seen made like that.

We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give. - Sir Winston Churchill
Go to Top of Page

Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
9722 Posts

Posted - October 24 2018 :  10:06:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As Evan says the typical JHP uses a cup with the front open and the lead core and HP are swaged into it. The base is jacket material.

However, there are exceptions and that Black Talon (and subsequent designs of Winchester LE "Ranger") are as Frogfoot pointed out, open at the base (except for a "lip" of jacket).

Modern pistol jackets are usually tapered in thickness and the Talons are the opposite there as well with the front being thicker (to make sturdy "claws").

Speer Gold dots are also different in that they are totally jacketed to start (it is a plating process) and then the hollow point is punched in with a swage die leaving the cavity with lead exposed - whoever came up with that was pretty sharp.

I'm right fond of wad-cutters. And I've shot some 200 gr. bullets in .38s and .357s. The trick it to make them fast enough to stabilize since they are longer than 158s.

I've tried inverted hollow base wad-cutters in .38 (both handloads and some factory efforts). Typically they are not going fast enough to stabalize from a 1 7/8" barrel.

Cup points, OTOH, seem to work OK.

Just Ramblin'

Jim H.

Get the Weaponcraft Journal on Amazon: Print or Kindle!
Go to Top of Page

Evan
Administrator

34384 Posts

Posted - October 24 2018 :  11:40:52 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Fed 125 gr jhp still keeps killing people with boring regularity!

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

Go to Top of Page
   Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
StoppingPower.net Forums © 2002-16 StoppingPower.net, Inc. Go To Top Of Page
Thispagewasgeneratedin0.2seconds. Snitz Forums 2000