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gw
Advanced Member

4446 Posts

Posted - June 27 2018 :  11:47:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
there are 1911's then there are 1911's ( techniqually 1911 is a military designation, all others are types, but why go there)

over the last 100 years, drawings have changed/been lost, materials and manufacturing technique changed, and tribal knowledge have led to the current situation.

Browning's original drawings were changed about 3 dozen times before the weapon went into production around 1910. the gun was never a Browning exclusive design by the way, Browning led a group of engineers using in put from the primary contractor, the US Military

there are currently more 1911 types being produced by more manufacturers, producing multiple varieties than ever in the 100+ years of production.

they are all producing their own idea of what a 1911 should be.

some are so far from the original specification they really can't be brought back, some of those are just range gun junk.

as an example of the confusion one critical requirement, fitting the barrel, varies from make to make.

barrel fit impacts, accuracy and reliability

looking at just 3 major manufacturers guns, there are 3 distinct barrel fitting methods used, all 3 are generally considered correct, all 3 have positives and negatives.

one mfg uses a tight fit over sized barrel, this is how I like a 1911 to be set up. it attempts to achieve a high level of accuracy with acceptal reliabilty. it also likely maintains a long service life.

but the downside is still reliabilty, tight tolerances do not provide much room for "crud". I assume the weapons assembled for certain SF outfits to be used in the current wars are set up this way and the prime reason they report reliability problems.

another well known maker uses a slightly looser fit, this still allows the barrel to be supported by the cross pin with good accuracy and a nod towards reliabilty. makes a good weapon as opposed to a range gun.

the third maker has been making these things from day one, their methods have evolved, but current examples have exhibited the looses fit of these 3 mfgs.

to be fair this is the exact fit used in WWII gi guns and is acceptable. the myth is this method was adopted for reliabilty, the truth is it is to simplify the manufacturing process. the up side you get an adequately accurate reliable weapon, the downside is it shortens the service life.

this loose fit usually involves the barrel standing on the link in battery, puts stress on that part and is usually where it fails. 10s of thousands of rounds usually, but it fails.

these are the things that drive armorers nuts. maintaining a large number of tuned, hard use guns can a the nightmare.

it's one reason hand tuned guns are so popular.

and why large organizations,like the US military, have turned to modern weapons designed to be mass produced


"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."

Edited by - gw on June 27 2018 11:52:27 AM

ironhead7544
New Member

USA
53 Posts

Posted - June 29 2018 :  09:08:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The "Group Gripper" and collet bushing were two interesting developments for the 1911.
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gw
Advanced Member

4446 Posts

Posted - June 29 2018 :  10:09:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
at the end of the war there were buckets of gi 1911 parts and people trained to build gi guns

this amounted to a "drop in parts" sort of loose fit mass produced 1911.

when the AMU set about producing a match grade weapon they had gi barrels, rather than weld up the lugs and fit a barrel, they developed longer links to tighten barrel fit. that was a large step sideways, the group gripper was a continuation in that direction.

when oversized barrels where produced that allowed for a better fit, the "gripper" fell out of favor. might be a cheaper way to improve a sloppy fit, but likely not the way to fit a "weapon" as opposed to a range shooter, in my view.

the collet bushing speaks for itself, too fragile for a hard use weapon. if the barrel is fitted correctly they might not be so bad, but the way series 70s were setup, they tended to break. Usually the first thing I threw away if I carried a 1911 home that had one...

a pre war gi 1911 in good shape is pretty reliable, will feed almost anything with just a gi magazine, and shoots better than most of us.

mass produced factory 1911s seem to be a bit of a crap shoot, some require parts, adjusted magazine lips, break in, etc. to work.

some won't show a problem until they go through a few hundred rounds.

if you're willing and able, a good 1911 is definately worth it.

but when you buy a production 1911, you get someone's idea of what that should be, hopefully they get it right.

when you buy something like a Glock or M&P, you get what you see.

good, bad, or ugly it's mostly the same gun no matter which one you pick off the pile.

I'm not any type of expert, just my usual opinion, worth what you pay for it.


"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."

Edited by - gw on June 29 2018 10:11:56 AM
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3362 Posts

Posted - June 29 2018 :  12:21:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just MHO... but the 1911 was a game changer in it's day. No longer.
Highly-tuned (and very carefully-maintained 1911s) do well in competitive events. But for the average self-defense shooter (or military personnel) who wants something simple, effective, and reliable, ... to function well under the circumstances where a handgun will be used to secure the safety of their butt... there are better choices.

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.

Edited by - Chris Christian on June 29 2018 12:22:50 PM
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Bill D
Advanced Member

USA
1176 Posts

Posted - June 29 2018 :  2:10:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And here I thought they had the 1911 figured out. So I guess I'll have to throw my 1911's away (even the ones that work) and just use my CZ's, or maybe the have a bad part...Bill

Bill D

Edited by - Bill D on June 29 2018 2:12:04 PM
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3362 Posts

Posted - June 29 2018 :  3:17:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bill D

And here I thought they had the 1911 figured out. So I guess I'll have to throw my 1911's away (even the ones that work) and just use my CZ's, or maybe the have a bad part...Bill



If they are working for you, why change? Take yes for an answer.
If you're not getting a consistent 'yes'... there are other options.

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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Badge
Advanced Member

USA
1687 Posts

Posted - June 29 2018 :  4:57:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
To my Marine Dad their is no other hand weapon. Same goes for the M1 Rifle. He's kind of old school and insisted I learn them both as a young fella. I'm comfortable with them so long as I can ring it out and keep malfunctions non existent or to an absolute minimum.

MSS
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

5183 Posts

Posted - June 29 2018 :  6:44:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Christian

quote:
Originally posted by Bill D

And here I thought they had the 1911 figured out. So I guess I'll have to throw my 1911's away (even the ones that work) and just use my CZ's, or maybe the have a bad part...Bill



If they are working for you, why change? Take yes for an answer.
If you're not getting a consistent 'yes'... there are other options.


Much as I hate to, Iím going to have to disagree with you here, Chris. Bill needs to get rid of those 1911s, and rely on guns he knows he can trust.

And to demonstrate that Iím not just spouting empty words, Iíd be more than happy to dispose of them for him.... free of charge...


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish, that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on June 29 2018 7:23:58 PM
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

5183 Posts

Posted - June 29 2018 :  7:41:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Iíll even throw in one of my magic shields....


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish, that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast
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gw
Advanced Member

4446 Posts

Posted - June 30 2018 :  10:54:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bill D

And here I thought they had the 1911 figured out. So I guess I'll have to throw my 1911's away (even the ones that work) and just use my CZ's, or maybe the have a bad part...Bill



it's not about throwing away any 1911s, if you have working guns you're good.

I got a nice pile of them and mine are staying put.

it's more about where you go if you're buying another, or if you're outfitting a bunch of operators.

Tier One counter terror units have given up and moved on to Glocks for the most part and they pushed the issue for a decade.

another good example is the FBI HRT 1911 selection

in typical Fed fashion they sort of reinvented the wheel, but they were specific about what they needed.

they tested examples from Wilson, Colt, Kimber, Les Baer, and a few others.

they ended up with the Springfield Operator ( after a disaster with the Para), largely due to Sprinfields ability. to meet production demands and supply the requested warranty support.

these were built in Springfield's custom shop and heavily tested before delivery.

even at that there were major issues with the guns after fielding, in the end the FBI hired Steve Nastoff to come in and work reliability issues on a, more or less, one on one basis.

current trend is for FBI SWAT guys to continue a move towards the Glock.

no big slam on the 1911, just the KISS principle in action.

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5395 Posts

Posted - June 30 2018 :  6:48:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Guess I've been lucky down the years, every (maybe three or four) 1911 type I've bought new worked fine right outta the box--can remember a Colt and AMT Hardballer in particular. All of those shoulda never been traded off. Three or four used ones worked good, too; one Colt had been 'worked over' by a kitchen-table gunsmith, and whatever he did, the gun worked wonderfully. It would feed empty cases and every hollow point I tried in it, even the old 'flying ashtray' that was so popular for a while.



(sniff) Sorry for the pause, I had to wipe my eyes over selling that one.
Anyway, I now have only one, a Springfield Champion Commander-size. It really doesn't like WWB hollow points, and I recently tried Federal HST's in it; doesn't like those either. Everything else has done good. Only thing I've had done to it was changed from a GI tiny front sight to one a bit bigger--then painted it yellow so old eyes could see it. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
If pro-gunners are as murderous as anti-gunners claim, why are there so many anti-gunners still running their mouths?
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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
5297 Posts

Posted - June 30 2018 :  7:03:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Why a 1911? Maybe it's because...

The legitimate knocks on the 1911's reliability treat the breed as a whole. Any single gun is a sample of one. It runs or it doesn't. If it doesn't, it can probably be made to run. When they run many of us find them unequalled for their balance of power and shootability. My favorite Colt 1970 series has run faithfully for 42 years. I think it's good to go.

I carried a 1911A1 daily for a year in Vietnam. I bonded with the gun; got to know it intimately. At times it was a security blanket. No other style of handgun has felt quite so "right" in hand before or since.

Those who mishandle their 1911's haven't carried/shot them enough. They're the same people who will forget to decock a DA/SA or to keep their fingers off the triggers on their striker fired guns. After 49 years experience with the platform I find the 1911 to border on "instinctive". "It all depends on which failure mode you fear the most."

At the range, the 1911/45 will chew a hole for me in the center of the target with fewer shots than any other concealable handgun. Other guns will also chew holes, but it takes more shots (smaller bullets) and the cumulative hole ends up larger. As for distance shots, I run out of ability before relative trajectory becomes an issue, but the Government model consistently outshoots the 9mm carry guns.

Stopping power? Momentum and KE are considered passť now - I'm still not sure why. It's all about bleeding, quitting, and CNS hits. So I try to ignore the videos I see of animals and people dropping DRT from apparent heart/lung hits way before they could possibly have bled out. Similarly I try to rationalize that it doesn't really matter any more that my 1911's put down pepper poppers and steel plates with noticeably more authority than my lighter, more packable, higher capacity 9mm GlockSig carry guns.

So why the 1911? Because after all these years the voices in my head make it my favorite all round handgun by about a 3:1 vote. It's just a little too big and heavy for concealed carry. I could always dress around the gun, but my chronic sore back can't be fooled. And there it is. YMMV, of course.

Jeff


jle3030
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Uncle Mike
Advanced Member

USA
1681 Posts

Posted - June 30 2018 :  8:10:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi, I'm odd man out as usual. I love trust and shoot well all my 1911's. From the GI made in 1918 to the more recent Colt XSE, I have always had luck. The Colt's have always served me well. The other brands I've tried not so much. If I was going into harms way I would take my Colt. I also own Glocks, Sigs, S&W revolvers and a bunch of Commie block pistols; so I'm not prejudiced, regards, Mike

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage"...Thucyides

"War is sweet to those who do not know it."...Erasmus
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Arvinator
Advanced Member

USA
5358 Posts

Posted - June 30 2018 :  11:10:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My two "1911" type pistols are a Remington stainless and a Springfield parkerized, both called "Milspec".
All I did was buy new mags and change grips and lube & shoot the snot out of them.

No, they are not carried often yet still kept at ready in case I need a full size fighting handgun for whatever the reason may be. While I am slowly buying hollowpoint ammo I am buying 230 ball ammo. Why? When President Trump leaves office, I can see a democrat or other liberal tax it to death or make it as rare as a honest politician ammo to the point where you can't afford it. I want the best combo I can find for me or my loved ones to have a handgun with the worst ammo available offer a decent chance to keep a dangerous threat off of you. That happens to be the 1911 with 230 grain ball ammo. Parts easy to find, simple, and if taken care of somewhat reliable.
No, it's not a +p or +P+ JHP but I think a .45 acp ball ammo will beat a 9mm ball round.

I bought basic design guns and looked them over and shoot them to make sure they work.

Be honest, fair, and always prepared...
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Bill D
Advanced Member

USA
1176 Posts

Posted - July 01 2018 :  04:51:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow, after reading all these things about 1911's I guess I'll have to keep my 3 Colts and 2 Rock Islands, one Ruger. My little Defender seems to work all the time in 45acp. One I never shoot is my new old series 70 Gold Cup, it seem to keep going up in value. The truth is once you get used to a nice Colt Combat Commander that ran for a long time, there is just no replacement like a smooth running 1911. I can attest the only problem I had was in the nickel Commander the chrome on the barrel was finally eaten off using Hoppes. New stainless and is running like a clock. When you get a 1911 that runs really well there us no substitute. That Commander is close to 50 years old..Bill D

Bill D
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gw
Advanced Member

4446 Posts

Posted - July 01 2018 :  10:59:49 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bill D

Wow, after reading all these things about 1911's I guess I'll have to keep my 3 Colts and 2 Rock Islands, one Ruger. My little Defender seems to work all the time in 45acp. One I never shoot is my new old series 70 Gold Cup, it seem to keep going up in value. The truth is once you get used to a nice Colt Combat Commander that ran for a long time, there is just no replacement like a smooth running 1911. I can attest the only problem I had was in the nickel Commander the chrome on the barrel was finally eaten off using Hoppes. New stainless and is running like a clock. When you get a 1911 that runs really well there us no substitute. That Commander is close to 50 years old..Bill D



a well known former Gunsite instructor and 1911 advocate prophetically opined maybe 6 years ago

"the 1911 is a fine weapon. It's quickly reaching the point of the 1873 Model P in terms of practicality as an issued firearm. "There are simply better choices in today's world."

Panama Canal Pilot, that must have been an interesting time

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."

Edited by - gw on July 01 2018 11:00:32 AM
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Bill D
Advanced Member

USA
1176 Posts

Posted - July 04 2018 :  4:19:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
They paid me to play with ships for 20 years in the big ditch, carried that Colt Combat Commander, mostly for when I had to ride in a government car back across the country to get home after taking a ship thru the canal. Took it with me when playing in the jungle. With a satin gold frame and chrome plated barrel stood up well to the ravages of high humidity and rain. What fun...Bill D

















Bill D
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Russ Larges
Moderator

USA
2338 Posts

Posted - July 04 2018 :  4:36:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A friend just bought two colt 1911s one a commander size one full size, both appear unfired. Told me this morning that with one, I don't know which, he has a very hard time seating a magazine. He looked up some forum on the 1911 and found that others have the same problem with the series 80 colts. Recommended fix is replace the mag release.
That's all I know about it.
Russ

The pistol, learn it well, carry it allways. Jeff Cooper
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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1850 Posts

Posted - July 12 2018 :  02:06:06 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Why not?
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gauchobill
Advanced Member

1083 Posts

Posted - July 12 2018 :  07:14:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Frequently I see the term "YMMV" in posts on this site. Will someone kindly tell me what that means, as I apologize for my ignorance.
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smoky14
Junior Member

242 Posts

Posted - July 12 2018 :  07:19:16 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Your Mileage May Very
or Vary

Edited by - smoky14 on July 13 2018 07:25:00 AM
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Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
9711 Posts

Posted - July 17 2018 :  2:58:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I started gunsmithing as a sideline (I've always had 2 or 3 jobs since I turned 21) in 1974. I tinkered with guns a good bit before that. While I've worked on a lot of different designs, most of the custom work I did for around 20 years was on 1911s.

I suppose I've gone through several phases of approaching the job. Certainly I have at times tried to make them as accurate as possible.

But I've come about full circle. I have a Remington Rand 1911a1 I bought off a Lexington police officer around 1973 or 4 for $35.

I used to carry that in my range bag to do demos with in classes and I have passed the Army rifle qualification with it 3 times - though I admit, the 300 meter target is not in much danger. But I rarely the 200 meter target and I hit the 250 often enough to be encouraging.

I also won an impromptu 100 yard pistol match at Gunsite in a class that included Navy Seals and Army SF instructors.

That isn't about any peculiar talent I have but it does illustrate the standard GI gun is more than adequate to do about any practical job we need fulfilled with a handgun (it certainly might not do, as issued, for some serious target shooting).

I also do not know of any modern manufacturer that would accept the reliability standards of the 1911a1 contract (one malfunction in 5000 rounds from one pistol pulled at random and the whole lot of 5,000 pistols was rejected).

I know of a few designs that do turn out individual pistols that are very reliable. But I don't know of any that never had a failed lot in producing around 5,000,000 pistols (by nearly half a dozen different makers). The inspector did have the option to pull another pistol from that lot and fire it 5,000 rounds. But that was the limit - so 2 stoppages in 10,000 rounds would reject the lot. I read recently that major maker of modern pistols said that passing was 20 stoppages in 10,000 rounds (that maker shall remain nameless because people get into such petty arguments about this stuff and at least they were brave enough to state it, while most makers hem-haw around the issue).

I'm doing fewer classes these days but one trend that seems to be increasing is that we see LOTs more malfunctions than we used to. No doubt part of that is the decreasing quality of ammunition and some might have to do with people now often make a living in an office and don't have the grip strength they used to.

I might be described as "epidemic". Used to we might see 5 stoppages in a 5 day class (and often it was a hand-loaded ammo or a magazine issue, sometimes it was bad custom work).

The last instructors class I helped out with was 3 days (one of those days was really only about 2 hours on the range and mostly dry fire). In the remaining 2 days I saw close to 100 stoppages. And that seems to be the new norm.

But I think some of it is that quality of manufacture is going down - or perhaps is the quality of inspection?

Stoppages are in fact so common that the people having them seem to think it is "normal" - me, if I experience a stoppage I get a really "queasy" feeling! Then again I might have a stoppage every 5 years or so.

I'm not trying to imply that all new guns are bad designs. It likely boils down to a case of individual samples and the individual shooting it...along with a decline in quality of "range" ammo.

Just Ramblin'

Jim H.



Get the Weaponcraft Journal on Amazon: Print or Kindle!
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5395 Posts

Posted - July 17 2018 :  5:10:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There are so many possibilities for 'why' stoppages occur, when I hear somebody say such'n'so make/model is junk because they had one--or more often knew somebody whose cousin's brother-in-law's buddy had one-and it was a 'jam-o-matic' (I hate that term), I tend to get out the salt shaker. I know one gun store that won't stock a particular maker's guns because the owner knows too many stories about failures---details on 'why' don't count, he's just not gonna carry the brand.
While one actual lemon doesn't disqualify a make/model as far as I'm concerned, I want a lot more details before I'll put a make/model on my 'recommend against' list--and those details have to come from reliable sources. 'I couldn't get it to shoot good' doesn't count. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
If pro-gunners are as murderous as anti-gunners claim, why are there so many anti-gunners still running their mouths?

Edited by - Ace on July 17 2018 5:12:21 PM
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

5183 Posts

Posted - July 17 2018 :  6:53:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jim Higginbotham

I started gunsmithing as a sideline (I've always had 2 or 3 jobs since I turned 21) in 1974. I tinkered with guns a good bit before that. While I've worked on a lot of different designs, most of the custom work I did for around 20 years was on 1911s.

I suppose I've gone through several phases of approaching the job. Certainly I have at times tried to make them as accurate as possible.

But I've come about full circle. I have a Remington Rand 1911a1 I bought off a Lexington police officer around 1973 or 4 for $35.

I used to carry that in my range bag to do demos with in classes and I have passed the Army rifle qualification with it 3 times - though I admit, the 300 meter target is not in much danger. But I rarely the 200 meter target and I hit the 250 often enough to be encouraging.

I also won an impromptu 100 yard pistol match at Gunsite in a class that included Navy Seals and Army SF instructors.

That isn't about any peculiar talent I have but it does illustrate the standard GI gun is more than adequate to do about any practical job we need fulfilled with a handgun (it certainly might not do, as issued, for some serious target shooting).

I also do not know of any modern manufacturer that would accept the reliability standards of the 1911a1 contract (one malfunction in 5000 rounds from one pistol pulled at random and the whole lot of 5,000 pistols was rejected).

I know of a few designs that do turn out individual pistols that are very reliable. But I don't know of any that never had a failed lot in producing around 5,000,000 pistols (by nearly half a dozen different makers). The inspector did have the option to pull another pistol from that lot and fire it 5,000 rounds. But that was the limit - so 2 stoppages in 10,000 rounds would reject the lot. I read recently that major maker of modern pistols said that passing was 20 stoppages in 10,000 rounds (that maker shall remain nameless because people get into such petty arguments about this stuff and at least they were brave enough to state it, while most makers hem-haw around the issue).

I'm doing fewer classes these days but one trend that seems to be increasing is that we see LOTs more malfunctions than we used to. No doubt part of that is the decreasing quality of ammunition and some might have to do with people now often make a living in an office and don't have the grip strength they used to.

I might be described as "epidemic". Used to we might see 5 stoppages in a 5 day class (and often it was a hand-loaded ammo or a magazine issue, sometimes it was bad custom work).

The last instructors class I helped out with was 3 days (one of those days was really only about 2 hours on the range and mostly dry fire). In the remaining 2 days I saw close to 100 stoppages. And that seems to be the new norm.

But I think some of it is that quality of manufacture is going down - or perhaps is the quality of inspection?

Stoppages are in fact so common that the people having them seem to think it is "normal" - me, if I experience a stoppage I get a really "queasy" feeling! Then again I might have a stoppage every 5 years or so.

I'm not trying to imply that all new guns are bad designs. It likely boils down to a case of individual samples and the individual shooting it...along with a decline in quality of "range" ammo.

Just Ramblin'

Jim H.





So.... seeing what youíve seen, and knowing what you know... if you were looking to buy a 1911 todayó old/used or newó which one(s) would be on your list?

Any particular year/make/model that would be your #1 choice?



"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish, that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on July 17 2018 7:05:49 PM
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

5183 Posts

Posted - July 17 2018 :  7:23:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I ask because.... I donít have a 1911. Iíve shot a few belonging to friends over the years, but never owned one.

And itís only now starting to dawn on me, that my handgun arsenal is woefully incomplete without one...

Can you help?


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish, that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on July 17 2018 7:25:39 PM
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Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
9711 Posts

Posted - July 24 2018 :  09:51:24 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LittleBill



So.... seeing what youíve seen, and knowing what you know... if you were looking to buy a 1911 todayó old/used or newó which one(s) would be on your list?

Any particular year/make/model that would be your #1 choice?



[/quote]

I guess I could most honestly answer that by looking at the ones I own. In some semblance of order or preference they would be:

A Colt made from around 1946 to 1969

Any World War I 1911 in good shape (Remington UMC, Springfield Armory, Colt)*

Any 1911a1 Colt or Contract Maker*

A Series 70 Colt

Springfield Armory standard models (but there was a period of "square" front straps and dust covers I'd avoid)

Dan Wesson USA

"Series 1" Kimber Custom Classic (they really aren't labeled that but have no FP block) - not any of the high $$ ones like Match or Gold etc. (I own 7 of these but only shoot about 4 - I have collectively over 80,000 rounds through them with very few stoppages and no broken parts - though I've seen some break in classes - they also have MIM action parts).

Ruger SR 1911 (these seem to work but they have some MIM parts in the action I worry about).

S&W E series

Sig 1911 seem OK but the square slide causes holster issues (as in there are not as many available).

*If you plan on shooting much more than 100,000 rounds I'd pick something harder than the old ones but they still last and last (I've seen them go a documented 400,000 but some parts were changed).

While I cannot bring myself to recommend cheap guns, I've had a lot of RIAs in classes - they historically have worked better than the modern plastic pistols and I have not seen any break (though they should at the price).

I have not been able to ring out the CZ (not USA) or the Tsias but folks I trust seem to think highly of them. No idea on the High Standard and new Ithica but I've looked them over and they seem put together correctly.

I may have overlooked a few, handling lots of traffic this morning for some reason.

Jim

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