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fsilber
Senior Member

USA
522 Posts

Posted - January 11 2018 :  9:05:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Apparently, Ruger recently announced a new budget pistol called the Security 9. It's dimensions are similar to that of the Glock 19, but a bit flatter and less blocky. The magazine holds 15 rounds of 9mm. Trigger is about 5.5 pounds (either partially pre-set DAO or single-action with long heavy take-up; not clear). It has a "hammer" not a striker, like the LCP. Initial reviews are good. Trigger is good but not great. MSRP is $375, which means it could conceivably sell some places for under $300.

Reviewers say it's very good for a budget priced gun. What frustrates me, though, is that no one will explicitly say what is lacking -- i.e., what would keep it from cannibalizing sales of Ruger's premium models.

Is it not rated for +P? Why can't they just say it? It's made of "alloy steel" (and polymer). Does that mean anything other that "It's not stainless"? (Does any steel exist that's not an alloy of some kind?) Is it's finish delicate?

OK, so it doesn't have the swappable grip inserts to change the feel. (Is that such a big deal nowadays?) Does it have a lower projected service life? Less accuracy?

But what are the compromises that justify the lower price? Just because they can manufacture it cheaply? I'm sure the Glock is manufactured for much less than it's selling price.

It has an unobtrusive manual safety on the left side that operates the correct way (up for safe and down to fire) and (unlike the SR9) is not awkward to reach. OK, not everyone likes a manual safety, but that wouldn't justify a lower price.

I guess I'll have to wait for more reviews. I wish marketers could just lay things on the line.

Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
9574 Posts

Posted - January 12 2018 :  10:52:21 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Do note that the gun has a concealed hammer. Ruger is not the only company that is finding that striker fired pistols are not perfect

Jim H.

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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5226 Posts

Posted - January 12 2018 :  3:17:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Got one in at the store, I like the feel of it. Grip seems to be of a size to fit small and 'regular' hands well, maybe problematic for gorilla paws. Finish seems OK, didn't examine it closely. Looks and 'feels' more compact than the Block 19, but didn't compare them side-by-side. I'd consider one for Momma, when she is ready to carry. Being a Ruger, I'd expect it to be reliable out of the box, but I'll still wait for others to test it.
Didn't realize the msrp was $375, but shudda known; that's the price the boss put on it.

Oh, and the safety switch could stand a little more substance, make it easier to work with cold or shaky hands---or offer a non-safety option. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
If pro-gunners are as murderous as anti-gunners claim, why are there so many anti-gunners still running their mouths?
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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1779 Posts

Posted - January 13 2018 :  04:28:31 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello,

Fsilber, I'll be putting rounds through one in a few weeks at SHOT, but haven't seen one in person yet.

However, my understanding is that the action is the same concept as the LCP II--a single action, hammer fired gun, in which the hammer is concealed in the slide, and is also of the two-piece variety, where the action of the slide cocks the internal hammer, but the spur itself follows the slide forward. Pulling the trigger raises the spur and eventually disengages the sear, dropping the hammer.

This hammer design is advantageous because the spur is not under mainspring tension. This allows easier slide manipulation.

The gun lacks a few features that simplify construction and lower costs. The fixed, molded grip is not adjustable. The takedown is simplified, using a cross pin instead of the more complex rotating lever of the American Pistol. The pistol lacks some "features" like a loaded chamber indicator or magazine disconnect that had to be added to other guns to keep the idiot states happy, but which added cost.

Also, the gun doesn't come in a bunch of different flavors--there's only one gun, in one caliber. The only real "option" is whether you buy it with a normal magazine or a restricted capacity (10 rd) mag. This provides for economies in production.

The American Pistol has more features and more possible options, so it costs more. I wouldn't worry about the Security 9's low sticker price being the result of cheaper materials--it's just a less complex design with fewer options and models to choose from, so it's less expensive to produce.

The Security 9 is rated for +P, per the manual, but not +P+ (not unusual, as nobody certifies their gun for +P+).

It was important for Ruger to have a gun in this category, to compete with economy guns like the Walther PPX/Creed, the Remington RP9, and others.

It looks like the Security 9 is a lot of gun for the money. I look forward to shooting it.

Mike
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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1779 Posts

Posted - January 13 2018 :  3:28:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
An inquiry to Ruger netted the following corrections and clarifications:

"It is hard to describe but essentially it is a hammer fired, mostly pre-cocked double action. (Glock is a striker fired, mostly pre-cocked double action). The hammer and spur are one piece and they are cocked by an inclined plane on the slide to reduce racking force. The trigger does compress the hammer against the main spring for its last bit of travel. The tension of the main spring and required travel against spring tension keeps it engaged with the sear. It can’t “slip off” like a single action but doesn’t have the long heavy pull of a double action.

The American is stainless steel slide, barrel, and chassis; nitride coated, internally lubricated (Teflon) and fully mil spec for +P in all extreme environmental conditions. Interchangeable grip modules, etc.

Security-9 has an aluminum chassis with full length rails (still better than a plastic frame with short molded-in rail sections) and blued “alloy” (non stainless) steel. It can handle +P but not a steady diet of +P. It is a personal defense / EDC weapon but not a “Duty” weapon like the American."

I should have just started with them to begin with!
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fsilber
Senior Member

USA
522 Posts

Posted - January 16 2018 :  9:56:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

It looks like the Security 9 is a lot of gun for the money.



I sometimes feel old-fogey like Jeff Cooper in his later days, in that I last bought a gun 17 years ago. I follow the industry, but my conclusion is always, "I like better what I already have." (Cooper would look at new products, look at his Lightweight 1911 Commander, and ask, "They're new, but are they better?")

Every few month something new is advertised. Either the gun is too fat or long in the butt for ideal concealment, or it's too short in the barrel for ideal ballistics, or it's too blocky, or its bore axis is too high, or its safety works the wrong way, or its safety is too difficult to reach.

(I'm cheap, but money is not usually an issue if I want something bad enough. The guns I have are an H&K P7 M13, a Kahr P9 Covert, and a Heritage Stealth -- which run the gamut from ridiculously expensive to suspiciously cheap.)

The Ruger Security 9 is the first one that made me thing, "I might want to carry that." And then it turns out to be even cheaper than the Heritage Stealth was. (Like, taking into account inflation, comparable to those Russian Makarovs twenty-five years ago.)

Hence, my incredulity.

The Glock 19 is 7"x5" with a 4" barrel, and not terribly fat. So many people have noted what a good combination that is -- yet only this year it seems that other companies are starting to imitate it. And this Ruger is thinner and rounder, too.
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Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
9574 Posts

Posted - January 21 2018 :  12:27:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
While I have not entirely quit buying guns, I have slowed down a LOT since retirement. That is not entirely because of money, it is because very little modern stuff interests me these days.

Not only did Colt quit making revolvers (mostly) but, as far as I'm concerned so did S&W! They don't make a single wheel gun that interests me - a 642 without the lock might but I have plenty of LW j-frames already.

Ruger does still make guns that I might be interested in if if found one that would fill a mission I don't already have filled.

There are some modern rifles that seem useful but the only one that has caused me to depart with my hard earned shekels is a Mossberg MVP .308 - and then only because it takes both M-14 and AR-10 mags and is threaded for a suppressor.

Jim

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garrettwc
Advanced Member

1023 Posts

Posted - January 21 2018 :  5:27:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jim, how do you like the MVP? Does it stack up well vs. the similar offerings from Ruger and others?

"Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready."
Teddy Roosevelt - San Francisco, CA, May 13, 1903
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Steve in Michigan
Junior Member

USA
156 Posts

Posted - January 22 2018 :  09:52:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That's the problem with being old. I've owned everything I really ever needed and nothing new fills a gap I haven't already filled at some time. I see a new pistol or revolver come out and I say "Hay, that is a neat firearm," and then I think about everything I already own and the new can't replace the existing in my mind. I guess it saves me money, but the fun is gone to "buy, buy, buy."
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gauchobill
Advanced Member

1063 Posts

Posted - January 22 2018 :  4:54:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think I am through buying guns but I. have thought that before. None of the new offerings will do any more for me than those I already have. I think I know all the idiosyncrasies of the ones I have and I think they operate pretty well in spite of my own personal idiosyncrasies. I have even resisted successfully the many offerings of the many manufacturers of the AR-15 types. If I ever need a rifle for self defense I think some of my traditional deer rifles will suffice. I won't be going into any buildings to clear them from armed inhabitants who may be lurking in the building.

I'm glad the various manufacturers of firearms keep trying. That is how the evolution of good arms that we have today came about.
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5226 Posts

Posted - January 22 2018 :  6:47:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm in that sad stage with gaucho, there's nothing I really need for myself. Got no practical need to get something new just because it's 'new', don't get to play enough to justify it. On the original topic, I do think Momma would probably like the new Security 9, based on how well she can shoot my S&W 669 and XD, but the Ruger's grip would probably suit her better. But she doesn't care to carry, so getting her one for her birthday (tomorrow! I just remembered!) isn't necessarily in the cards. If business is good enough this year, our little company might acquire one, and if she likes it she can keep it. At least it would be a tax deduction.
But yes, the thrill is gone. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
If pro-gunners are as murderous as anti-gunners claim, why are there so many anti-gunners still running their mouths?
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4810 Posts

Posted - January 22 2018 :  10:13:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ace and gauch,

Sorry to hear you’ve both come down with GBFS.

Fortunately, there are therapies available for your gun-buying fatigue syndrome. Not only that, but given time, most experience a full recovery!


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish, that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on January 22 2018 10:15:31 PM
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5226 Posts

Posted - January 23 2018 :  10:01:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm thinking the cure would start with Momma letting me buy a big enough patch of land to hunt on, and put in a small range; then I'd have a place to play with new toys. Sadly she worries about trivial things, like paying the light bill and buying groceries and such. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
If pro-gunners are as murderous as anti-gunners claim, why are there so many anti-gunners still running their mouths?
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gauchobill
Advanced Member

1063 Posts

Posted - January 23 2018 :  5:12:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm with Ace on my need for a personal range for my use and invited well-chosen friends. That doesn't appear to be in the cards unless I could win one of those mega-millions lotteries, and I can't hold my breath until that happens.
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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1779 Posts

Posted - January 27 2018 :  10:26:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello,

I shot the Security 9 at SHOT Show and was quite impressed with it. The trigger was quite good and the frame felt good in my hand--the texture and shape were spot on. The sights were good as well, and easily replaceable in their dovetails for people who want something different. The shape of the slide was nice and forward slide serrations were there for those who like them.

The only thing I could really squawk about was just a matter of personal preference--the thumb safety. I don't normally care for these on this kind of pistol, but one was present. It was pretty unobtrusive though.

There are few guns around this price point that are as nice. The Canik is comparable in quality, but the trigger is not as good as the Ruger. I have much more faith in the Ruger than the Taurus Millennium series or the Remington RP9s that were liquidated in fire sales at the end of last year. The Hi Points don't even come close in terms of looks or handling.

I'd say the Walther Creed is the closest competition for the Security 9, which is quite a complement, as I think highly of the Creed. The Ruger will be easier to find though.

This one is definitely worth a look, folks. MSRP is $379, so you'll probably find ot just under $300. My opinion is that it's a LOT of gun for that kind of money.

V/R
Mike
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Pop Pop
Senior Member

USA
831 Posts

Posted - February 09 2018 :  07:25:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Going to seriously look at one of these pistols, but want them to be out in the market place for a while longer.

Pop Pop
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rev.
Senior Member

950 Posts

Posted - February 09 2018 :  09:15:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ace & gauch.,
At age 79 I'm in relatively good health, but, I know I'm nearing the end. So, rather than having my "stuff" tossed out on the driveway I've been "dispersing it" bit by bit to whom I decide. I've gotten rid of a lot but I have picked up a piece here and there along the way too. Somehow I just couldn't help it.
rev.
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lashlaruhe
Starting Member

USA
31 Posts

Posted - February 10 2018 :  11:58:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I purchased a Security 9 a few weeks ago and 2 boxes of WW 9MM Steel case ammo. Had numerous fail to extract the steel case ammo, however no failure to extract Speer or Federal brass case ammo. IMO, the Ruger Security 9 is a keeper truck gun, paid $317.00 out the door.

Edited by - lashlaruhe on February 10 2018 11:59:45 AM
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3148 Posts

Posted - February 10 2018 :  12:15:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lashlaruhe

I purchased a Security 9 a few weeks ago and 2 boxes of WW 9MM Steel case ammo. Had numerous fail to extract the steel case ammo, however no failure to extract Speer or Federal brass case ammo. IMO, the Ruger Security 9 is a keeper truck gun, paid $317.00 out the door.




You're not the only one that has problems with steel cased ammo, in any gun. I avoid it like the plague, regardless of maker or caliber.

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4810 Posts

Posted - February 10 2018 :  3:46:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I guess AK47s— supposedly designed to use steel-cased ammo— are ‘the exception that proves the rule’?

Back before I understood it’s disadvantages, I bought a couple cases of Russian steel-cased .223, it was ridiculously cheap, ~ $200/1000 if I recall. I shot up a case and a half of it with no problems in my Mini-14– fed fine, no obvious harm to the gun— before learning enough about how hard it was on the extractor to retire the rest.

Ditto on Russkie steel-cased 9mm in my SIG P226; got some, no problems, but stopped using it when I became a little better informed as to it’s possible drawbacks.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish, that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on February 10 2018 4:00:06 PM
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gw
Advanced Member

4210 Posts

Posted - February 10 2018 :  7:56:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
why is the AK different ?

truth is steel case ammo sold in the states might be crappy but it doesn't hurt your gun. Hornady makes steel cased ammo that's match grade.

the Russian and Chinese armies use steel cased ammo, win a lot of wars

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5226 Posts

Posted - February 10 2018 :  8:13:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My AR likes the Wolf and Silver Bear real well, functions fine and way more accurate than I would expect from cheap Russkie junk ammo. However, things are about to change. Just got a .300BLK barrel, and gonna have a buddy switch the AR over, see how that goes. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
If pro-gunners are as murderous as anti-gunners claim, why are there so many anti-gunners still running their mouths?
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4810 Posts

Posted - February 10 2018 :  8:20:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I’d heard that steel-cased ammo was harder on extractors than brass-cased. And that the extractors of AKs were designed for steel-cased rounds, while most other guns’ extractors were intended for brass.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish, that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on February 10 2018 8:22:52 PM
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gw
Advanced Member

4210 Posts

Posted - February 10 2018 :  8:44:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
the tool steel in extractors is tougher than the mild steel used in ammo

I've ran brass cases and steel through a rockwell hardness tester, the brass is harder and more brittle

the extractor in ARs is the weak link, but they are cheap and easy to replace

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4810 Posts

Posted - February 11 2018 :  08:33:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks, good to know! I can bring that steel-cased ammo out of retirement.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish, that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast
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gw
Advanced Member

4210 Posts

Posted - February 11 2018 :  09:16:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't find the Russian stuff, in any caliper,to be what I'd term "premium" ammo, but it works for training,

the Hornady steel cased on the other hand is good stuff.

the Russian ammo uses a propellant formulated for long term storage, it burns real dirty, makes a mess.

the US Military screws a blank adapter onto weapons and pumps thousands of rounds of dirty, crappy blanks through the things during training.

creates quiet a mess too, they clean up.

the trick is not to mix brass ammo with steel without cleaning.

the coefficient of expansion between brass compared to steel is different

the steel case does not seal the chamber as well as brass, allows carbon to build up at a different rate and can create problems with brass cases if the chamber is not cleaned before switching.

carbon build up causes problems regardless of ammo used.

the chamber brush is your friend


"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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