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Advanced Member

5347 Posts

Posted - December 19 2017 :  4:03:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We got a trade-in at the store that I'd never heard of; a Para 16.40 LDA. Five-inch 16-round 1911-ish with a light double action (LDA, clever, huh?) trigger. Several people have looked at it, nobody wants it yet.
But it has sparked some discussion on possible practical uses. One subject has been the idea of using heavy (165 or 180gr) bonded bullets for hunting deer-size and smaller game. Kind of a 10mm lite, as in the thread title. Not sure I care for the idea, but after watching some YouTube gel videos, I'm not so sure. Hornady Critical Duty looks potential, so does Buffalo Bore 155gr.
So, for the serious handgun hunters here (everybody else is welcome, too) is this a good thought, or should I discourage the idea? Please, give me talking points, help me look smart.

Kind of an aside, the bureaucratic geniuses in the Wildlife department made 'Any Centerfire Cartridge' legal for taking deer in my state; so a snubby .38 would, by their reasoning, be 'appropriate' for chasing Bambi. Sheesh! Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
If pro-gunners are as murderous as anti-gunners claim, why are there so many anti-gunners still running their mouths?

Advanced Member

4076 Posts

Posted - December 19 2017 :  10:06:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I do not own any .40 S&W caliber firearms. However, I AM extremely fond of Buffalo Bore ammo, in everything I shoot. I canít imagine B-Bís loading for the .40 out of a five inch 1911 would be anything but stellar for any ďfield useĒ.

"The measure of a man's character, is how he treats someone who can do nothing for him." (unknown)
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Pat Taylor
New Member

54 Posts

Posted - December 20 2017 :  02:01:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Double Tap and Underwood both load 200gr bonded Nosler HP bullets in the .40 with the DT being a little hotter. Clocked some a few weeks ago and the DT went 1050fps from a 5 inch M&P and the Underwood 975fps from the same pistol.

The hot 200 grain ammo will not always run as the usual 165/180 loads do. I also have a 5inch 1911 in .40 and with the common off the local shelf ammo it runs fine with .45 or .40 magazines. The 45 mags are a no go when the power level is bumped up on the 200 gr ammo.

In 5 inch 1911s the hotter DT loading feels about the same as 220gr +P 45 Hornady when fired.

If you use a throat reamer on a 1911 .40 so that the pistol will chamber long loaded ammo you can hand load even harder hitting rounds.

Edited by - Pat Taylor on December 20 2017 02:03:42 AM
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34359 Posts

Posted - December 20 2017 :  12:29:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
After doing my "Ballistic Johnny Appleseed" Act with my 7 kids and my oldest grandsons, I own three handguns-a Glock 22, a Glock 27, and a Taurus stainless .357 sub that after a few hiccups has been fine. My wife won custody of my Smith 640 snub that has Crimson Trace grips on it. It is a .357 and she can handle those but fell in love with CB DPX in .38 Special and shoots it very well. Because of a severe cerebial hemorage when she was two she simply lacks the strength to manipulate a slide though she can manage the charging handle on her AR. We both have AR's and I also have a Mosin Nagant 91/30.

I also have a KT Sub 2000 that is finally street reliable though I don't like the sights setup and am convinced that the position I have to get in, if held for a couple of hundred rounds would require a visit to the doc.

Anyway, when I was in the Detroit Police Academy I was 25, married with a son, and a returned Mormon Missionary. I really did not have much in common with the 21 year olds were focused on bragging about their sex life and how much alcohol they could consume.

At lunch time I would find an empty table in the lunch room, eat my lunch, and look thru a large pile of American Rifleman. I came across an article on the .41 Magnum and the Model 58, which looked like a Model 10 on steroids. I finally found one for $83 at Williams Gun Sight and when I bought two boxes of factory ammo I realized I was going to have to reload in order to shoot it.

I like the .40 S&W and mine are loaded with my remaining small quantity of DPX. The Glocks and KT all feed it reliably and I am confident if I do my part, it will do its part.

I don't hunt though I obviously have no problem with those that do. I quickly got involved in situation where other people got hurt, some rather badly, that it just doesn't appeal to me.

I'm convinced that things will get much worse rather quickly and that I carry two Glocks and KT daily. The only place I routinely go where there are large numbers of folks is church amd it worries me greatly.

Anyway, I like the .40 just fine though the only one of our kids who has .40 handguns in my oldest son. I had two Beretta PX4's that I thought I was in love with until I realized he oved them more.

Hey, what are dads for if not to teach their children to resist evil at all cost?
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Junior Member

107 Posts

Posted - December 20 2017 :  7:17:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Evan as a 21 year old rookie i didnt fit in with my co workers instead of drinking and and running around my time was spent working Dads farm and sitting around Peters garage or Russ basement learning about duty fire arms and ammo and tactics I am convinced those times are what helped keep me going home in one piece so just wanted to say THANKS
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

3300 Posts

Posted - December 21 2017 :  12:35:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ace, I wouldn't be comfortable with a .40 180 grain bullet at 1,000 fps as a 'general' hunting load for deer-sized game.There is very little margin for error.

If you're busting shoulders or spines inside 25 yards a good bonded core bullet (like the Cor-Bon offering) would do the job. But heart lung shots, even at that relatively close range, become problematic.

Critters will run with a heart/lung shot with just about anything you hit them with. A .40/180 grain bullet that expands to create significant internal damage may not give full penetration to produce an exit hole to allow tracking the animal to recovery. If it displays minimal expansion it may penetrate, but may not do enough internal damage to drop the animal within a recoverable distance.

You can kill deer with a .22 rimfire. But there is zero margin for error. I'd view this gun/load in only a slightly more charitable light. I, personally, would not hunt deer-sized game with it.

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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Jim Higginbotham

9681 Posts

Posted - December 22 2017 :  09:27:06 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

I'd sorta say ditto to Chris' feelings though I have not shot anything with a .40 that I recall. I have shot stuff and seen stuff shot with 10mm loads that were not all that hot. I had to shoot a woodchuck 5 times with the Winchester 180 gr 10mm JHP (which gets about 1050).

Saw a 200 lb boar shot with 10mm 180 Hydra Shok (which is also about 1050) - it was only hit in the lungs but it only ran about 25 yards. The bullet was recovered from the off side shoulder - it did not expand at all.

There are probably a couple of non standard loads I might think would do. I put back a 500 round case of Winchester Ranger when they were loading the Nosler Partition 165 in .40 - this stuff gets 1165 fps from my 4.5" G 22 - it does not expand big but it does expand. Unlike rifle Partitions it does not blow the nose off. It penetrates a good bit more than 18" in Gel which I would want for game hunting.

I have no experience but my guess is that the Cor-bon DPX load might do.

I'd actually look to the "boutique" rounds loaded with 200 gr. bullets though - placement is your friend but penetration is a necessity.

I also have one of those LDA 16.40s and I have the standard SA as well - for both of them I installed a spare barrel and chambered it for 10mm.

I have a heavier Wolf spring for both and the standard mags work fine for 10mm. These are one of the few guns I put a shok buff in - but I don't carry them for self defense.

I've shot a good bit of 10mm from 1911 type single stacks (Paras are not really 1911s so I cannot say how they will hold up to a lot of heavy loads - I have not fired my converted Paras all that much, maybe 500 rounds of 10mm and a few thousand .40s) without any problems - in fact that is the only 10mm I own I would shoot the original Norma Factory ammo out of. I have a Glock 20 but I would not shoot hot load out of it unless I bought an aftermarket barrel with a supported chamber.

Just ramblin'.

Jim H.

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Edited by - Jim Higginbotham on December 23 2017 09:02:22 AM
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Pop Pop
Senior Member

916 Posts

Posted - December 30 2017 :  10:40:24 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ace read this short story this morning. Thought you might like to read it.

Hard Lessons in Handgun Hunting

I headed into day three of my hunt feeling dejected. In my hand rested the Springfield Armory TRP chambered in 10mm, but in my mind two misplaced shots still rang. My first handgun hunt with iron sights wasnít going well. However, the lessons I learned over those two days would make me a better handgun hunter on the third and final day of the hunt.

While Iíve hunted with the .460s and .500s of this world, the 10mm is new to me. Its smooth, unobtrusive nature pleasantly surprised me while I tested it out on the range. The cartridge is plenty capable of taking down large game. The Barnes TAC-XP round has a muzzle velocity of 1150 fps and enough energy for hunting Oklahoma whitetail. I felt that my comfort range with the Trijicon night sights was 30 yards.

The first doe casually cruised at 30 yards, right in my comfort zone. The second my finger touched the crisp, SA Gen 2 Speed Trigger, I knew the shot was inaccurate. Lesson oneórushing a shot, no matter the situation, never ends well. If Iíd waited and taken a couple of extra breaths, it would have made all the difference.

Lesson two came when a doe bolted in close. Elevated 30 feet in the air, I didnít think I needed adjustments. I was wrong. This shot went awry too. I spent plenty of time behind the TRP 1911 on the range, but failed to practice how I was going to be hunting. I didnít factor in shooting from a stand, elevated shot angles or shooting from sticks. All those errors could have been prevented with a little preparation on my part.
I ranged the furthest mesquite tree at 50 yards. I had zero faith that I could make a successful shot from my stand at that distance, but as hunters we come to expect the unexpected. Sure enough, the doe stopped at the mesquite tree as I pressed the trigger. SCORE! The TAC-XP connected right in the boiler room as the doe fled.
Iíd done it.

Handgun hunting with iron sights is exciting, but a different beast. I liken it to bow hunting. The shots are close, and the hunter requires more preparation to be effective. Looking back, the only flaw was my own lack of proper preparation and my shortcomings at the range. The Springfield Armory TRP 1911 performed as advertised. Built for the hunt, this gun earned a place in my vault for the next up-close-and-personal encounter with whitetail. ~ KJ

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