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 Does an AR Pistol make any sense for Self Defense
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Dr.G
Starting Member

5 Posts

Posted - November 14 2017 :  12:33:35 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As hard as it is to admit, I think I've finally reached a stage in life where I have all of the guns that I need. The only one I really want (AK-107), is currently unavailable for import into CONUS.
I've toyed with the idea of building an AR pistol as a close quarter Personal Defense Weapon for the house. Just interested in people's opinions of the AR pistol as a practical close quarter (75 yds or closer) self defense weapon. This will have a 10 in. barrel, Red Dot, Mag Pul Angled Forward Pistol grip, flashlight, folding pistol brace, & single point sling. Fun toy, practical PDW or both?


Nobody ever wished they had a smaller gun, with fewer bullets, in a gunfight...author unknown

oldmuleskinner
Senior Member

791 Posts

Posted - November 14 2017 :  04:29:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a KelTec PLR-16.

My only additions to it are a red laser with a pressure switch, a muzzle brake, and a barrel shroud.

Pros:
Small size for a .223/5.56 - it fits into a racket-ball bag, or a small backpack, or a 17" laptop bag
It is technically a handgun and at least in my state, can be carried loaded in a vehicle
It is very light in weight - 3.4 pounds
Large magazine capacity for a "handgun"

Cons:
It is incredibly loud!
I haven't found a good IWB holster for it yet - it is a hard pistol to "dress around"

I would consider it as more of a fun toy, but it does have some practical applications.
If I had to pick between my PLR-16 and my SU-18C, it would be the carbine...if I could only keep one.

Each of us is an innkeeper, and we decide if there is room for Jesus.
Neal A. Maxwell
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Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
9412 Posts

Posted - November 14 2017 :  08:33:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think it likely does make some sense but it is easy to go wrong.

I went the registered SBR route so I could have a legal stock.

The ATF cannot make up its mind on the Sig brace and the copies and I'm sure no one on this list would ever use the thing for a shoulder stock But it does aid in stabilizing the gun.

I have several uppers for my SBR (and it is an MGI Hydra which can change magazine wells - I can even convert it ti .308 taking the magpul SR25 mags if I want but I don't have that particular magwell).

I do have one that takes AK 47 mags - but it is picky about which mags it uses - I have found 10 that work and that should be enough.

My favorite upper though is a .300 Blackout with a 9" barrel. It used to have a 12.5 but I found that the .300 works well in shorter barrels. Killed a big deer with it last year.

In 5.56 the conventional wisdom, which seems about right, is not to go below 11.5" for performance.

Note that it is going to be LOUD in 5.56! Another reason I like the .300 Blackout - it is quieter - and since I have a suppressor it is *really* quiet

I would like to try a 6.8 but don't have short upper for that.

Silver Bear in 7.62 X 39 hits really hard though!

Jim

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Deputy25
Senior Member

USA
935 Posts

Posted - November 14 2017 :  4:56:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I picked up a Romanian Draco 7.62x39 pistol a couple of years back for peanuts from a guy who bought it and never fired it. Itís very compact, and itís fairly easy to make torso hits on a B27 at 100 yards. I have a SIG brace for it, and 4 mags loaded with 8M3. It fits in a backpack or gym bag with no problem. Downside, it makes quite a racket.

Before all else, be armed. - Machiavelli
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Dr.G
Starting Member

5 Posts

Posted - November 16 2017 :  02:00:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the responses guys. I have enough serious rifles to fight for my life with if need be. I think I've put in enough time to get something I want, "just because". Having a fun toy is nice, but having one I could actually, realistically fight with is a lot better.

Thanks Jim on the 11.5 in. barrel length warning. If I actually decide to do this, that will be included. In know the 7.62x39 performs a lot better our of a short barrel than the 5.56 does. if I'm going to spend the money to put this together, it may as well be built to get the maximum bang for my buck.
I'll have to do some research on the best flash hider for that length barrel. I have a friend with a weird looking cone shaped flash hider on an AK pistol that made a world of difference in the noise level with, or without it. Since this will be an AR- Pistol, I'll have to see what works best.

I know the 5.56/.223 is a velocity dependent round for terminal effectiveness. I have a 1:8 twist rate on my 16 in. AR It will stabilize anything from 40 gr. up to 75 gr., but that's in a 16 in barrel. Any suggestions on twist rate for a 11.5 - 12 in. barrel?

Nobody ever wished they had a smaller gun, with fewer bullets, in a gunfight...author unknown
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Dr.G
Starting Member

5 Posts

Posted - November 16 2017 :  02:11:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Deputy 25, check out the Bulgarian 4 piece flash hider for the AK pistol. Looks strange, but works really well for both flash and noise level suppression.

Nobody ever wished they had a smaller gun, with fewer bullets, in a gunfight...author unknown
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Deputy25
Senior Member

USA
935 Posts

Posted - November 16 2017 :  10:21:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Iíll do that, thanks.

Before all else, be armed. - Machiavelli
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jlwilliams
Junior Member

USA
233 Posts

Posted - November 19 2017 :  08:35:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Short answer, yes.

Now, this part is important, the buffer tube is why it works. The Kel Tec is smaller, but the AR is better. You want that tube because you can cheek weld to it. The BATFE has gone back and forth on the issue of shouldering the wrist braces, but they have consistently taken the position that you can cheek or even shoulder a recoil tube. That's not as stable as shouldering a real stock, but it's way better than a traditional pistol grip. You have to bunch down to shoulder it but you can cheek it standing or running. It takes practice. Lots of dry fire and movement drills, but you get near rifle results if you work on it.

It takes practice, and you won't get real "rifleman" results, but you can hit man size targets at 200 or 300 yards and hit them with real power with an AR pistol. Ammo selection counts more in a short barrel than a long one, but effective carbine results at close to medium range can be had and more importantly carried wherever you can carry an AR pistol.

In my statena loaded rifle in the vehicle can be problematic, more so in some counties than others. An AR pistol is a pistol as defined by the law and can be carried and concealed with a CCW. If I want more than a Glock available to me, this is the only viable option. I've been working with it and it's definitely (as Evan says) more effective than a stern look.
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