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 .22 Nose Flattener
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
4885 Posts

Posted - March 25 2017 :  1:48:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Can't find it, but I remember Jim talking about a simple tool he had cobbled up to flatten the nose of .22LR rounds. Could somebody help me with instructions on making one of those? Seems setting the shell on a rock and tapping the tip of the bullet with a hammer isn't a good idea--or so I've been told. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.

RLS
Senior Member

USA
677 Posts

Posted - March 25 2017 :  2:05:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ace,

Here is the thread:
http://www.stoppingpower.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=28075

I made the trip to Lowe's for the coupler, checking the web page before I left to see if my local store had it in stock. The web said yes and gave me a location in the store - the aisle and the bay. The aisle was correct, the bay was not. It was in a drawer a good distance away, but in the proper aisle.

It turned into a major project for me, it's difficult when one has ten thumbs.

Rick

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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
2776 Posts

Posted - March 25 2017 :  3:21:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My question would be "Why is it needed?" Considering what you are likely to shoot with a .22LR, there's an ample selection of rounds on the market that will handle that task. Why go through al that trouble?

Just asking

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
4885 Posts

Posted - March 25 2017 :  5:58:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
1) They're my bullets, I can flatten them if I want to.
2) I have a lot of Lead Round Nose loads, so it will give me something to do on slow days at work.
3) Maybe they'd make squirrels and rabbits and such more deader.
4) I don't really know, it just sounds cool.

Pick one. And thanks for the link. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
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Russ Larges
Moderator

USA
2187 Posts

Posted - March 26 2017 :  06:39:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I, for one, have found the flat nose bullet to be more effective on squirrels then round nose. Even head shots if off slightly with round nose can mean a lost dinner, the flats seem to hit with more effect. They also are less damaging them hollowpoints. I have been making them for many years.
Russ

The pistol, learn it well, carry it allways. Jeff Cooper
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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
4880 Posts

Posted - March 26 2017 :  09:07:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You might want to Google Paco Kelly .22 ACU'RZER and NASTINOSE rimfire bullet tool. I have zero experience with the tool, but it's reported to work as advertised, improving both accuracy and performance.

Jeff

jle3030
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Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
9279 Posts

Posted - March 28 2017 :  10:54:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My reason is that during the first part of the crunch I bought a drum - it wasn't 55 gallons but it was 25, full of CCI RN .22 lr. and got it pretty cheap. I forget how many thousands of rounds are in the drum. They are standard velocity (which is noticeably more accurate). It would hold about 6 cases I think, maybe more.

In any case flattening the nose does make the bullet a great performer on small game and like Russ mentioned does not tear up quite as much meat as the HV hollow point.

If I was shooting more varmint with it the HV HP would be what I'd use unless they were tiny varmints.

Jim

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Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
9279 Posts

Posted - March 30 2017 :  08:45:13 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Once upon a time CCI made the same thing and actually called it a "Small Game Bullet".

I don't know if they still do but I never did run onto many in stores.

Jim

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gw
Advanced Member

3776 Posts

Posted - March 30 2017 :  11:44:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
someone said shooting squirrels with a .22 lr is akin to shooting whitetail with a recoilless rifle...

don't know if that's a fair equivalent but a head shot with even a round nose short is pretty deadly, takes it back to placement i reckon

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
4885 Posts

Posted - March 30 2017 :  12:01:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've seen those CCI SGB's on web sites, never seen them in a store. Got a couple of boxes a while back, gave one to the brother and kept one. I haven't shot anything with hair yet, but the brother has--he gets a lot more opportunities--and they did fine; don't know that the critters were any deader, but they still fit the frying pan.

I remember shooting a squirrel head-on once, went a little high, skimmed the top of his head, went into the spine, and stopped about halfway down the body. Came out with a flattened point, shape of a little lead cylinder. That was a Remington Sub Sonic lead hollow point. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
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Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
9279 Posts

Posted - April 02 2017 :  11:42:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Squirrels can be a bit difficult on body shots.

A close friend bought one of those H&K .22 magnum auto-loaders.

We found right off that it was "too much gun" for squirrels with JHP bullets and sort of blew them up with body shots.

OTOH, one morning we shot 9 with the .22 magnum FMJ and they were a total failure - he is a diligent hunter and it took us a long while to track each one down (of course we did not actually "track" them but between us we sort of figured out where they ran off to.

Head shots are indeed better but most of my squirrel hunting is done with an iron sighted pistol and so I will typically shoot them behind the shoulder.

Jim H.


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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
4885 Posts

Posted - April 02 2017 :  4:34:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My experience with squirrels, starting about 10 years old when I was first allowed to go out on my own, is head shots with any .22 load, most of the time the squirrel will kinda 'jerk' and drop; occasionally it will actually run a little bit before falling. Usually, with a shot through the ribs, it will flinch, stay gripped to the tree, then kinda 'peel' off and drop. I prefer head shots, because the bullet hole through the ribs makes them harder to skin.
On those occasions I use a shotgun, they usually just stop running, fold up, and drop, like shooting quail. Once I did head-shoot one with a .243 (he had been pestering me during a deer hunt), which left nothing but a bloody nub in front of the shoulder. I thought I had missed him, because he actually ran down the tree and across the floor of the woods, maybe 30 yards or so. Had to blood-trail him, like a deer, and found the corpse curled up under an old junk car, just like he was hiding. How could he do that, with no eyes to guide him, and no brain to give commands to the nervous system? Dunno, but he did it.

To stay on point, I plan to pick up the coupler Tuesday or Wednesday, and try to make the Flattenin' Tool. Looked at those other suggestions, which are cool, but the coupler device will be cheaper--and I won't have to wait for delivery. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

3970 Posts

Posted - April 02 2017 :  5:40:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That is wild: about the headless squirrel. There's a lot we don't know....

Speaking of squirrels: I've been reading a lot about the oldtime buffalo hunters.

Contrary to what you see in the movies, the most successful hunters didn't hunt from horseback, riding among a herd of stampeding buffalos.

Rather, they still-hunted: approaching the herd on a crawl, with the wind in their faces, and shooting the 'shaggies' from 100-200 or more yards out, from behind a concealing bush or rock, with a purpose-built Sharps buffalo rifle, much too cumbersome and heavy--- 12 to 16 pounds--- to be used from horseback.

The trick, according to the old hunters, was to drop the lead bull in his tracks.

Buffs are not real smart: they follow the lead bull. If he runs, they run. If he doesn't run, they don't either. If he drops in his tracks... they mill around, sniffing at him, and wondering what's going on.

That's when the hunter was able to 'make a stand': to kill dozens of animals before they figured out what was happening; meanwhile, the hunter drops them one by one by one by one.... IIRC, 106 was the largest 'confirmed kill' by one hunter in one spot.

According to what I'm reading of the hunters' testimony, a heart-shot buffalo usually ran, often for 100 yds or more, before finally falling. OTOH, a buff shot through the lungs maybe took a few hesitant steps... but usually dropped more or less where he was. That was the shot they were shooting for.

Kind of like your rib-shot squirrel?


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on April 02 2017 7:09:51 PM
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gw
Advanced Member

3776 Posts

Posted - April 02 2017 :  10:06:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
we had buffalo on the farm, bulls are knott heads just like all us bulls....

they don't see well, their eyes are on the side of their head. they depend on smell, they don't smell you they don't know you're there.

the headless squirrel is like a chicken with it's head cut off, remove the head above the brain stem and they ain't dead until they bleed out.

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

3970 Posts

Posted - April 03 2017 :  08:23:04 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I get the headless chicken part, seen 'em run around randomly til they drop....

it's the part about the headless squirrel seemingly 'knowing' where to hide that's a bit strange....

"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on April 03 2017 08:24:29 AM
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gw
Advanced Member

3776 Posts

Posted - April 03 2017 :  08:31:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LittleBill

I get the headless chicken part, seen 'em run around randomly til they drop....

it's the part about the headless squirrel seemingly 'knowing' where to hide that's a bit strange....




google up "Mike the headless chicken"

Miracle Mike makes you rethink the head shot.....

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

3970 Posts

Posted - April 03 2017 :  6:20:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow! Gives a whole new perspective to 'chicken with his head cut off'.

I'm guessing that when they lopped his head off, they must have cut right above the 'basal brain': the swelling at the top of the spinal cord that controls respiration, etc. That's the part to hit if you want everything to stop.

Does remind me of some people I've known..... who seem to be getting on perfectly well with only part of their brain....


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on April 03 2017 6:22:55 PM
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Ben B.
Senior Member

666 Posts

Posted - April 07 2017 :  12:32:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I had the Paco Kelly tool years ago. My goal was to make inexpensive ammo more accurate for barnyard benchrest. I don't remember specifics other than testing was inconclusive and i decided it wasn't worth the trouble. It was hard to get the same amount of force to get consistent results. It was a bit nerve-wracking whacking with a hammer on the bullet side of what is basically a chambered .22 rimfire.

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." --Thomas Jefferson
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Russ Larges
Moderator

USA
2187 Posts

Posted - April 09 2017 :  4:49:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ben B.

I had the Paco Kelly tool years ago. My goal was to make inexpensive ammo more accurate for barnyard benchrest. I don't remember specifics other than testing was inconclusive and i decided it wasn't worth the trouble. It was hard to get the same amount of force to get consistent results. It was a bit nerve-wracking whacking with a hammer on the bullet side of what is basically a chambered .22 rimfire.


I would think that you could make a slide hammer tool that would impact the forming die the same each time. I do like the idea of upsetting the bullet a bit to fit the bore better.
Russ


The pistol, learn it well, carry it allways. Jeff Cooper
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