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ASCTLC
Senior Member

614 Posts

Posted - February 12 2017 :  5:07:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm coming to the conclusion that at it's smallest grip the Gen 4 Glock 19 grip is just too thick for my hands. I like the grip angle of the G19 if it weren't so thick. I shoot left unless I wrestle it over right. But I don't want to have to wrestle my pistol to get it to shoot straight. If I close my eyes, grip out of my holster, push out in front of me, then open my eyes, the G19 aims well left. At 7 yards, I'm hitting about 2"-3" left of aim point even when torqueing the pistol right to line up the sights.

I say I have medium cadet hands...that's medium size hands with a little shorter than typical fingers.

My Bersa BP9CC lines up automatically for me and shoots awesome too. It's limited to 8 rounds, short 3.3" barrel, and doesn't like my desired HST 124 +p carry ammo. Will try Gold Dot 124 +p but that won't make up for the shorter than a preferred 4" barrel nor increase my capacity to a preferred 12+ rounds.

So any of you have this issue that might advise pistols that you found fit your hands better without going to super slim and sub-compact pistols? I really want to stay with 4" barrel but can't have over 15 round magazines here in CO unless that dumb law gets repealed (might actually happen but not holding my breath just yet).

I've got a long list of pistols I think I'll try to find at a LGS to see how they might do.

Sig 2022
Walther PPQ
Walther P99
Walther PPX "creed"
H&K VP9
Beretta PX4
Ruger SR9
FN FNX or FNS
Kahr TP9
and last
Taurus PT809 (I know many poo poo Taurus but the 24/7 Pro was the best fitting and performing pistol I ever had and it concealed carried great)

You're probably thinking I'm missing the S&W M&P but I absolutely hated the triggers on the ones I dry fired at the LGS.

Thanks for any help you might offer guys.

Andy

jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
4880 Posts

Posted - February 12 2017 :  5:41:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You might want to add a Sig P239 to the list. Single stack, smaller grip, 8+1, hides very well, fast and accurate.

Jeff

jle3030
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
4885 Posts

Posted - February 12 2017 :  6:34:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Another: Taurus Millenium. Maybe try the Ruger American compact; I like it, so if you don't, you could just send it here. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
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bandaidman
Advanced Member

USA
1276 Posts

Posted - February 12 2017 :  8:02:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You didn't mention the XD, the new mod2 fits well and I really want one, I like the VP9as it is completely ambidextrous and you can make the grip fit just about anything. The PPQ has a slightly better? Trigger than the VP9 but isn't ambidextrous. I bought a Taurus 840 back when the County Sheriff used to bring a ase of 40 for us radio operators to say thanks it's a great gun. Trigger isn't as good as XD's or others. By the way Glocks have NEVER felt good I my hands, which was why I bought the Taurus, I hated to borrow one of the deputies guns to shoot I just couldn't make it shoot.



“If for a while the harder you try, the harder it gets, take heart. So it has been with the best people who ever lived.
Jeffery Holland
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pbsodetective
New Member

USA
59 Posts

Posted - February 12 2017 :  11:10:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I had a grip reduction done to a Glock 23 and I like it very much. Straightened the hump out of the back strap, relieved under the trigger guard for a higher grip, I had them removed the finger groves, and re-stipple the grip feels great. Lots of folks like to leave the finger groves, but I have fat hands with short fingers and went all in for the smaller circumference. I could use all the holsters and mags I had for my duty 23 which I carried on and off duty until I retired. Now I rarely carry a "Regular" grip Glock.
My usually EDC is a 23 with the grip reduction above and chopped to take Glock 27 mags. It has the balance and carries the way everybody wishes a 26 or 27 would carry.
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
2776 Posts

Posted - February 13 2017 :  07:58:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Ruger American compact might work for you. I had one in for T&E and liked it quite a lot. It will take full-sized 17 round mags, and also comes with a 12 rounder.

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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ASCTLC
Senior Member

614 Posts

Posted - February 13 2017 :  08:59:31 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks guys!

I do keep looking at that Ruger American compact. It only has a 3.55" barrel but has 12 round magazines that fit it right. Could I compromise with that? Possibly....
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
2776 Posts

Posted - February 13 2017 :  09:24:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ASCTLC

Thanks guys!

I do keep looking at that Ruger American compact. It only has a 3.55" barrel but has 12 round magazines that fit it right. Could I compromise with that? Possibly....



The 17 round magazines (with the sleeve removed) made a better grip for my hands than the 12 rounders. I also found the gun to be more accurate than I expected. There were some two inch 5-shot groups from a 25 yard sandbag rest, and plenty of 2.5 inch groups. That 3.5 inch barrel doesn't seem to hurt the accuracy.

It was also (wait for it) "flawless" through about 400 rounds without cleaning, including some "Mouse Puff" Steel Challenge handloads (124 grain at 925 fps). Some guns won't handle that unless a lighter recoil spring is installed but the Ruger ate them cheerfully.

It's also a fully ambidextrous gun and perfect for southpaws.

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
4885 Posts

Posted - February 13 2017 :  09:44:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I may be mistaken (never wrong), but I don't think any bad guy has complained because he was shot with a 3.5" gun instead of a 4" or 5". Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
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silverback
New Member

USA
59 Posts

Posted - February 13 2017 :  10:55:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have made the switch from Glock to Kahr for the same reason.For me good move.The p and tp are great guns.I have one pm9 with over 4000 rounds down her with one spring change no problems.
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Pop Pop
Senior Member

USA
598 Posts

Posted - February 13 2017 :  12:13:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a Kahr P 9 that I carry on the strong side hip IWB in a Cross Breed holster. It is a tad bit larger than the PM 9.It has been flawless with Remington Golden Saber. I have 500 + rounds through it and it was purchased used. It holds 9 + 1. Like it a lot. Carried it many times along with a Taurus 617 7 shot 357 mag in front pocket.

Pop Pop

Edited by - Pop Pop on February 13 2017 5:24:54 PM
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gw
Advanced Member

3776 Posts

Posted - February 13 2017 :  12:48:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You might put the Avidity Arms P10 on your list.

It was conceived a few years ago as a single stack G19 by folks that think the Glock is too thick in the grip. Was out at the 2017 Shot Show. It's been an up and down start for it apparently but they might have worked the bugs out, I think they had issues with magazines the use of the McCormick mags might be the answer.

4 inch barrel, 19oz, uses McCormick 1911 9mm magazines.

I'd also look at a 9mm 1911 Commander

And the Sig P320.

The 2.0 S&W M&P is supposed to have a nifty factory trigger.






"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1599 Posts

Posted - February 13 2017 :  6:48:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello,

I shot the PD10 at SHOT and it's not ready for primetime yet. If they can get it debugged and ready for production, it will be worth a look, but that may be a while still.

The M&P 2.0 trigger is a whole new ballgame--much better than the older guns. That could be a viable option.

I see your preference seems to be striker-fired, but if you'd be happy with other action types, here's some others with good reputations for being friendly to shooters with smaller hands:

Sig P225
Browning Hi Power
CZ-75

Mike
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ASCTLC
Senior Member

614 Posts

Posted - February 13 2017 :  7:02:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Went to a local store/range and got to handle a lot of these. Sure weeded out a lot of em too! I checked the XDs and M&P 2.0 also while at it. Didn't care for the XD but the M&P 2.0 felt nice but did not align for me naturally. Didn't cost me anything so I checked em all out. Just for feel and effortless alignment from a draw position we liked the feel of the Ruger American compact and the H&K VP9. Price points aren't very close between these latter 2 but she knows there's more to a purchase than price.

I liked the PPQ also but just can't get past how high that bore axis looks on the thing. Looks XDish to me and can't help but think it's a muzzle flippen fool. I admit, I don't know as I haven't shot an XD or PPQ but my enginerd brain tells me these aren't the direction I want to explore, at least not now that we found 2 that offer such promise due to feel and natural sight alignment. Who knows tho, maybe we end up exploring something unexpected like the XD or PPQ after our range rental time.

That VP9...Wow, that felt great in all aspects for both of us. She really liked the trigger, weight, and especially those charging supports at the back part of the slide. Don't really do much for me but then again, this isn't about me but her.....ok, it's about me too but anything that fits her will fit me just fine. Think about it, if your wife is having to shoot someone off ya, don't you want her to have the best that fits them??? I told her not to use the shotgun

They have them as range rentals and we got a card for free rental of up to 3 guns...that was nice of them. Will definitely be shooting the R A compact and VP9. Wife likes the feel of the VP9 much better for her hands and that's before customizing the grip panels and back for best fit. Maybe I'll check out an FN for a 3rd gun, what the heck.

They ex-LEO guy warned me about possible lack of holsters and such for the VP9 but I've got that covered anyway myself. As long as I can get 3 mags and it feeds quality SD ammo, preferably the HST I already have on hand, that's about all I need past good natural fit, alignment, and shooting. He also questioned CCing a VP9 sized pistol but I've done it before with no issues. He liked and had on him what I consider peewee sized pistols - a G43 and a little .25 pocket pistol. I don't discount thin little rockets as I obviously have a thin BP9CC, I just want something more towards a fuller size so I have variety sizes covered depending on circumstances.

eta: I checked the CZ P01. I liked it but wife didn't think much of it. Something about CZ's I really think look great.

Edited by - ASCTLC on February 13 2017 7:03:49 PM
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nmtgrad
Starting Member

USA
21 Posts

Posted - February 13 2017 :  10:36:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pbsodetective

I had a grip reduction done to a Glock 23 and I like it very much. Straightened the hump out of the back strap, relieved under the trigger guard for a higher grip, I had them removed the finger groves, and re-stipple the grip feels great. Lots of folks like to leave the finger groves, but I have fat hands with short fingers and went all in for the smaller circumference. I could use all the holsters and mags I had for my duty 23 which I carried on and off duty until I retired. Now I rarely carry a "Regular" grip Glock.
My usually EDC is a 23 with the grip reduction above and chopped to take Glock 27 mags. It has the balance and carries the way everybody wishes a 26 or 27 would carry.



I would second this option of a Glock with a grip reduction. My agency issues Glock handguns, and I found that the stock grip never fit my hand right (I have small to medium sized hands). Because we are authorized to carry personally owned Glocks, I purchased a Gen 3 Glock 19, sent it off for the grip reduction, which included removing that awful "Glock hump" on the backstrap and the finger grooves. With this modification, I find that the Glock 19 fits my hands perfectly. Not only that, all of the other guys who handle my Glock 19 say that it fits their hands much better than the stock Glock 22.
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

3970 Posts

Posted - February 13 2017 :  10:45:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Don't know if it's the same on other guns, but the Hogue Extreme G-10 grips reduce the grip circumference somewhat on a Sig P229 & P226. Not a whole lot, but definitely noticeable.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast
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Sigger
New Member

USA
75 Posts

Posted - February 14 2017 :  12:33:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pbsodetective

I had a grip reduction done to a Glock 23 and I like it very much. Straightened the hump out of the back strap, relieved under the trigger guard for a higher grip, I had them removed the finger groves, and re-stipple the grip feels great. Lots of folks like to leave the finger groves, but I have fat hands with short fingers and went all in for the smaller circumference. I could use all the holsters and mags I had for my duty 23 which I carried on and off duty until I retired. Now I rarely carry a "Regular" grip Glock.
My usually EDC is a 23 with the grip reduction above and chopped to take Glock 27 mags. It has the balance and carries the way everybody wishes a 26 or 27 would carry.



Who did your grip reduction?
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ASCTLC
Senior Member

614 Posts

Posted - February 14 2017 :  3:10:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just got back from the range. Bye bye G19, HELLO VP9!!!!

My wife had this huge grin on her face every time she shot the VP9 and I had one as well. Felt so great and was so easy to be accurate with it.
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pbsodetective
New Member

USA
59 Posts

Posted - February 14 2017 :  10:02:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sigger

quote:
Originally posted by pbsodetective

I had a grip reduction done to a Glock 23 and I like it very much. Straightened the hump out of the back strap, relieved under the trigger guard for a higher grip, I had them removed the finger groves, and re-stipple the grip feels great. Lots of folks like to leave the finger groves, but I have fat hands with short fingers and went all in for the smaller circumference. I could use all the holsters and mags I had for my duty 23 which I carried on and off duty until I retired. Now I rarely carry a "Regular" grip Glock.
My usually EDC is a 23 with the grip reduction above and chopped to take Glock 27 mags. It has the balance and carries the way everybody wishes a 26 or 27 would carry.



Who did your grip reduction?



Cold Bore Customs in Texas
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billmc
Senior Member

510 Posts

Posted - February 16 2017 :  11:20:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Looks like I'm a little late to the party. Good Luck with the VP9. As Ten Driver mentioned, I to was going to suggest the CZ. I have a Bersa .45 Ultra Compact. I liked how it fit my hand. I wanted to get another DA/SA but in 9mm. I was planning on getting another Bersa. The 9mm Ultra Compact has a 13 round mag and a 3.3" barrel. I could never find one in stock to try the fit in my hand. During my search I came across a CZ. Its fits my hand better than any pistol I've held. I picked up the PCR version. It has a 3.8" barrel. Its standard mag holds 14 (so 14+1) and I checked with CZ, it'll also take the 16 round mags.
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ASCTLC
Senior Member

614 Posts

Posted - March 14 2017 :  09:27:52 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, let me come clean and admit I can be such a fool sometimes.

So I went to training down in Tucson (absolutely incredible! But that's another post coming) and since the VP9 was only a couple weeks old and only had 500 rounds through it before class I took the G19 as my spare/backup.

I found 2 instructors had G19/G23 carries and their hands & fingers are even shorter than mine, by a lot! Wait a minute! Back the bus up! So these guys are good shots with their same sized Gs yet they have even smaller hands?!

So what bright idea did I come up with?? Yeah, I decide to use the G19 for class/qualification. It is a little thinner and shorter than the VP9 so it does make a little positive improvement for concealed carry. Not so much during winter when I have an extra button up shirt on, but during spring/summer/fall, it's enough easier to conceal the G19 than the VP9 under just a single t-shirt. Comfort's no different for me though.

Range time was informative but appeared as much about qualification as it was training. I had it in my mind I'd get more trigger training but hind sight tells me that's perfectly fine and I'm good with that. I qualified fine but came away knowing I'm the accuracy problem and not my tool. I'd only be further foolish to not see that take away as worth it's weight in silver alone.

I'll bluntly state: I think my trigger control just sucks. Heck, the instructors probably thought that too I can dry fire fine but that's not translating onto the range for some reason (another post coming on that too).

The conclusion is: the G19 is staying in the stable instead of being sold off. My better half much prefers the VP9 anyway so that one obviously stays too. We wound up with a win/win/win here The G19 stays, my wife gets a VP9, and I know exactly what I need to work on.

Andy

Edited by - ASCTLC on March 14 2017 09:31:27 AM
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zeke
Junior Member

239 Posts

Posted - March 14 2017 :  5:59:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Have delt with trying to find pistol grips to fit smaller hand forever. Maybe why am liking the single stack 1911 and bhp with thin grips. Add to them a k/l frame with houge bantam grips.

Long time ago just tried adapting to rotating grip so the top portion of second segment of trigger finger doing the trigger pull, with off hand for old style push/pull support. Goes against most doctrines, but could adapt to shooting N frames da, and other larger gripped pistols. Stayed away from glocks for this reason, but just bought a g19 4th gen to try out, as the grip is slightly reduced. Still rotate my grip around on the g19, but am getting better at reducing/eliminating that glock trigger break jerk.

Every person is different size, and a "fitted" rifle/bow pistol is consideration, or just adapting to what works.
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revjen45
Advanced Member

2215 Posts

Posted - March 22 2017 :  11:15:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Everybody who has held my Steyr S9 has liked it. May I suggest you look at one?

Better to perish in the struggle for freedom than live to see defeat.
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Dov
Advanced Member

USA
2621 Posts

Posted - March 23 2017 :  01:21:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I really like the G26 with the newish 12 round mags, fit my hand lot better than G19.

But then there is just something about G19 that my hands don't like.

G29SF or G34 or the G26 with 12 round Glock mag all fit good though.

YMMV of course.
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revjen45
Advanced Member

2215 Posts

Posted - March 26 2017 :  1:27:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Tokarev TTC has skinny grips...

Better to perish in the struggle for freedom than live to see defeat.
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Uncle Mike
Advanced Member

USA
1515 Posts

Posted - March 26 2017 :  3:58:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi how about the Glock 21 vs the Glock 21 SF ? Try as I might I can't find a G21 SF to try my "fist" on. The web says that "the length of pull "is shorter on the SF, regards, Mike

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage"...Thucyides

"War is sweet to those who do not know it."...Erasmus
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